Brexit again...

[For Us All]

Ah right, Westmonster. Arron Banks' site.

 

His mates at Cambridge Analytica are in a spot of bother at the minute.

 

I didn't know Arron Banks supported Dennis Skinner.Does Jezza know?

 

Anyway,here's another thought from the Beast of Bolsover.

 

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Dennis Skinner is a great politician and parliamentarian, a working person's socialist of the old school. However, as an economic, rather than a social liberalist, socialist myself I disagree with him regarding the EU. His belief, shared with Jeremy Corbyn, that socialism is hard enough to achieve in one state and virtually impossible in 28, may be true but what can be achieved is an economically strong society with a good deal of liberal freedoms. The political direction forwards from that would depend on how equitable that society is, in much the same way as any nation state.

I may disagree with Dennis on this issue but at least his arguments are logical and informed, they're not just ignorant and based in prejudice and pseudo patriotism.

[For Us All]

Dennis Skinner is a great politician and parliamentarian, a working person's socialist of the old school. However, as an economic, rather than a social liberalist, socialist myself I disagree with him regarding the EU. His belief, shared with Jeremy Corbyn, that socialism is hard enough to achieve in one state and virtually impossible in 28, may be true but what can be achieved is an economically strong society with a good deal of liberal freedoms. The political direction forwards from that would depend on how equitable that society is, in much the same way as any nation state.

I may disagree with Dennis on this issue but at least his arguments are logical and informed, they're not just ignorant and based in prejudice and pseudo patriotism.

 

So you think the EU is democratic?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

So you think the EU is democratic?

Not as democratic as I'd like but I see it as a work in progress and one I'd like us to help shape and improve. It's taken us 1000 years to get to where we are in the UK and we've only had the still largely imperfect democracy we currently enjoy for less than 100 years, this year being the centenary of universal male suffrage and for women only of the age of 30 and above. Political justice and democracy is a hard won and precious prize.

[Regal Beagle]

Lets set fire to it first and then we can talk about shaping and improving it.

[The_godfather]

Lets set fire to it first and then we can talk about shaping and improving it.

 

Why not? Seem to be operating a scorched earth policy as is...

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Lets set fire to it first and then we can talk about shaping and improving it.

Very constructive, a similar approach to that persued by the Nazis. That worked out well, didn't it?

[Davebrad]

now Spain is following her own agenda, by withholding its support for the withdrawal agreement over its nationality claim over Gibraltar's sovereignty...oh well just another example of the community working as one for the common good...

[For Us All]

I see Junker's phoned Putin to congratulate him on winning the Russian election?

[Davebrad]

I see Junker's phoned Putin to congratulate him on winning the Russian election?

 

I wonder if jeezer did as well:unsure: Donald did:yes:

[nowag]

On the VAT wiki page...In July 1974,*Labour*Chancellor*Denis Healey*reduced the standard rate of VAT from 10% to 8% but introduced a new higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods.[5][8][10]*In November 1974, Healey doubled the higher rate of VAT to 25%.[8]*Healey reduced the higher rate back to 12.5% in April 1976.[8][10][11]

 

 

There are quite a few instances on the wiki page where it has been reduced even as recently as 1998. I guess you have been reading fake news.

 

You have been the one reading fake news, the vat rate is set by the EU at 15% to 25%, it cannot be reduced below 15%, some goods are exempt from the minimum 15% like energy which is set at 5%, you need to get yourself into the 21 century, the sooner we go it alone the better.

[philpvfc]

It’s set now between these rates and we can raise and lower VAT as long as it stays between these parameters. What we struggle to do is remove VAT from products, look at the fiasco with tampons, this showed what a mockery the EU are.

[SuperValiant1876]

You have been the one reading fake news, the vat rate is set by the EU at 15% to 25%, it cannot be reduced below 15%, some goods are exempt from the minimum 15% like energy which is set at 5%, you need to get yourself into the 21 century, the sooner we go it alone the better.

 

I notice you changed from "cannot be reduced." to "cannot be reduced below 15%"

 

So it can be reduced then, which is the point I was arguing against. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

VAT was introduced by the UK government in 1973 in preparation for joining the (then) EEC. It was set at a rate of 10% and later reduced to 8%. It replaced the UK Purchase Tax, introduced in 1940, which was applied to 'luxury' goods and the levels of tax applied were, frankly, horrific for many items. The rate of Purchase Tax in 1973 prior to the introduction of VAT was 25%. Anyone old enough or with a knowledge of economic / political history will know that Purchase Tax made items such as cars or TV's incredibly expensive to the average income family and often put them out of reach.

 

Once we leave the EU any UK government will be free to reintroduce purchase taxation levels of whatever rate they choose and don't make the assumption they won't be greater than VAT rates.

 

Also, all major economies operate purchase taxation, even China, and the rates vary but are not too dissimilar to EU VAT rates so all this demonisation of the EU regarding VAT is yet another misnomer.

 

If you don't like the EU, fine, but let's base likes and dislikes on realities rather than emotions.

[philpvfc]

At least we will be able to set the taxation levels we wish and what is and isn’t subject to these taxation’s rather than going cap in hand to the EU if we want to adjust it.