Brexit ......in or out ?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

unelected and unaccountable organisation

 

Even though I am diametrically opposed to your views I can accept you don't like the EU, however, it simply isn't true to say it's unelected or unaccountable unless you see all purportedly democratic governments in a similar light. There are European elections and all EU officials are elected or appointed by the elected governments of the member states. You, or I, may not think this to be a good system and may wish to change it but as it stands the EU is a democratically elected organisation. Our monarchist system with a house of lords with permanently appointed judges and senior civil servants is far less democratic.

 

BTW I would like to change them both as I would like to see improved democracy everywhere.

[Paul6754]

Yes ,you're right. But the UK government had been trying to join the party since the early 60's, only to be continually thwarted by DeGaulle's veto. But, I don't believe referendum on whether to JOIN should have been held for the same reasons as stated above.

 

Said the same myself, MP's should lead not follow. MP's should have much more knowledge/understanding of something as important as being in/out of the EU to make an informed decision compared to the average person on the street.

 

Being out of the country it appears to me the Remainers ran the most lame camapign possible, the whole Remain campaign and the general aftermath of the vote just beggars belief.

[Jacko51]

The top and bottom of it all, is that there shouldn't have even been a referendum in the first place.

 

I said that in February 2016.

[Jacko51]

It was decided to enter the common market by referendum

 

So the people are allowed to change their minds. I'm glad we've estabished that principle.

[Jacko51]

As opposed to Jezza who is lover of manhole covers and his lovely assistant #HackneyAbbott who is studying pure mathematics?

 

And Putin who has a penchant for women's underwear and unnatural practices with dogs.

[Andyregs]

Said the same myself, MP's should lead not follow. MP's should have much more knowledge/understanding of something as important as being in/out of the EU to make an informed decision compared to the average person on the street.

 

Being out of the country it appears to me the Remainers ran the most lame camapign possible, the whole Remain campaign and the general aftermath of the vote just beggars belief.

 

It was lame, and the leave campaign was 'immigrants bad' and lies. I voted remain, but i know there are genuine arguments to leave, but from my limited knowledge didnt think i knew enough to make such a big decision. I follow politics and feel i know little about it, so i think its ridiculous that such a momentous decision was allowed to be made when people had no idea what they were voting for (apart from 'immigrants bad').

[philpvfc]

Cameron did the right thing in calling a referendum, we never voted to join the EU as it is today and it effects us all so the people should have the choice. It's a shame there was all the bull **** from the politicians during the debates which muddied the publics opinions and a lot chose on the back end of lies.

 

If the result had been the other way round the remainers would not be saying there shouldn't have been a referendum, they just cannot accept defeat.

 

The public chose the right decision IMO and we will not be rejoining the EU so forget the idea of having to have the Euro, or join the Shenghan agreement.

[Paul6754]

It was lame, and the leave campaign was 'immigrants bad' and lies. I voted remain, but i know there are genuine arguments to leave, but from my limited knowledge didnt think i knew enough to make such a big decision. I follow politics and feel i know little about it, so i think its ridiculous that such a momentous decision was allowed to be made when people had no idea what they were voting for (apart from 'immigrants bad').

 

I would have voted remain but couldn't vote as I've been out of the country for more than 15 years. My elderley parents both voted leave on the basis of immigration and money for the NHS, both would vote remain if given the chance again 'cause both now realize they were lied to.

 

For me free flow of people within the EU is a good thing, the latest figures show it's financially positive for the UK amongst other reasons. What needs to be controlled is the current rate of immigration into the UK and EU from outside of the EU as the continent cannot cope with the current levels.

 

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, the UK has blown its toes off both feet.

[Jacko51]

If the result had been the other way round the remainers would not be saying there shouldn't have been a referendum, they just cannot accept defeat.

 

You're wrong. I am a Remainer and I said from the day that the Referendum was announced that we should not be having one. Also, Farage said during the campaign that if Leave lost narrowly by, say, 52 to 48, then that would not be the end of the matter. Why should I accept that the people made the right choice when I am convinced they didn't? The Leavers weren't going to - why should I?

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

 

Also, the argument that we didn't vote for the EU as it is today is wrong. We voted to join the Common Market as established by the Treaty of Rome which referred to the move towards "ever closer union" in its preamble. Every change since then has been ratified by the UK Parliament.

[philpvfc]

You may have said in February there shouldn't be a referendum but you are one of the very few. I voted out and wanted us to leave for a good many year but I would have accepted defeat had the result gone the other way and hoped we could negotiate a better deal with the EU. Farage would never have won another referendum had he lost the first time round.

 

We never voted to join what we have now, we voted to join a common market which is totally different from what we have ended up with and I do not have a problem with a common market as long as they take away all the restrictions of dealing with none EU countries.

[Fosse69]

You may have said in February there shouldn't be a referendum but you are one of the very few. I voted out and wanted us to leave for a good many year but I would have accepted defeat had the result gone the other way and hoped we could negotiate a better deal with the EU. Farage would never have won another referendum had he lost the first time round.

 

We never voted to join what we have now, we voted to join a common market which is totally different from what we have ended up with and I do not have a problem with a common market as long as they take away all the restrictions of dealing with none EU countries.

Very few countries in Europe change things with a simple majority, 2/3 or 3/4 majorities are usually required, avoids all the arguments and gives clear cut results. How many countries have first past the post electoral systems? The whole point of the common market was political, De Gaulle did not want us in, the target being a united Europe not at war with ourselves, ultimately to include Russia, I think 2030 was mentioned. Maybe not mentioned very much at the time, expectations being it would grow on us, but some of the media owners had other ideas. The only choice I see is an about turn or a tax-haven.

[philpvfc]

So the public vote 52% to leave the EU and it shouldn't count because there wasn't a 3/4 majority?. I'm sure that would have caused plenty of arguments.

[Regal Beagle]

Getting your excuses ready early.And wasnt the Norway model suggested by the leave campaign?

 

No excuses from me?

 

If we get a full and proper brexit and it turns to ****, I'll happily admit I was wrong.

 

I don't want a half in half out brexit and didn't vote for it, so I don't see how that is getting an excuse in already?

[Bea Smith]

I know some exceptionally 'poor' people but I don't know anyone who has used a food bank to my knowledge.

 

I think food banks are massively over exaggerated.

 

Also I paid for uni, I bought my own house, paid for with my hard earned money.

 

If I can't afford something I don't have it. A lot of my peers would do well to think the same way in my opinion.

 

 

aNGRY OF MAYFAIR HERE, i BOUGHT MY OWN HOUSE, i paid for my own umbrella, these young people today with their interwebs - they don't know the meaning of real money, conscription, whips and lashes for them and I'll do it for free,,,,and I'm here to tell you how to spend your money and not my taxes

 

and these damned FOOD banks are full of..., well food, and theyre a commie pinko plot to flood the market with free food for liberal lefty loony subversives.... Burn them all, set fire to their cornflakes and their damned tins of bake d beans.. GRRRRRR

 

Here's what he would like - with a special appearance at the end of the clip by RB

 

[Regal Beagle]

What makes you think food banks are massively exaggerated?

 

What does paying for uni and a house have to do with anything. Was your university 9k a year and did you need to put a 25% deposit down on your house?

 

If you couldn't afford food what would you do?

 

1. I've already explained why in my post that you quoted.

2. No it wasn't £9k a year, but a lot less working class people could afford to go then when I went.

3. I didn't need to put a 25% deposit down, but I did anyway.

4. (And I know this first part will **** Bea Smith and David off because they'll think I'm somehow disgusted by poor people and blaming them for being poor or whatever....But I'd get a job, any job I could. If not then I'm lucky enough to have a family that would help me out, I'd cut back on any luxuries and sell anything I didn't need. I'd use a foodbank if I had no other option.

 

I don't get your point though, I'm not saying food banks are a bad thing (though it's a shame that there is any need for them in the first place) I'm just saying that I don't think there's hundreds of thousands of people out there in the UK, in 2017, that can't afford to eat, and furthermore, I think that the ones that truly can't afford to feed themselves actually have other issues that cause it and we should be treating those issues.