New EU deal

[whotobeakiller]

Spot on but don't forget that it was UKIP who helped us get a referendum in the first place.[/quote

 

Everything that UKIP has argued is now being repeated by the Tories yet no one calls the tories racist or bigotry. I for one am glad the tories taught Labour a lesson in the last election. Labour are nothing more than a party for the Black ethnic minorities and big corporations who use them for foreign labour...in other words...the poor stay poor

[whotobeakiller]

I don't know which way to vote yet but I certainly wont be swayed by UKIPPERS shouting about things that aren't even true, or even that relevant. Let the adults talk and I'll decide when I've heard and considered both sides. I guess some people have already decided without actually knowing what they are voting for.

 

You can wait outside then

[TheJoker]

Resorting to personal insults...you have lost already i'm afraid. Maybe that's to do with the fact you are a bigot.

 

Africa are suffering because of the undercut tarriff's on their coffee supply by the EU...so actually that is one fact that makes Africa a poor country because the EU dictates cheap deals and is no more than a rich corporate superstate which undercuts the poor.

 

I said the UK was being run down...don't put words in my mouth I never said the UK was a 3rd world state yet....can you read?

 

Do you think I would like to go to Africa at the moment? It's being ran by extremist muslims....the way this country is going

 

Africa is a continent not a country. Perhaps you missed that day at school?

[PVTony]

Jacko51;2182926]I object in principle to the referendum.

We elect MPs to make decisions, hopefully informed decisions, on our behalf but when it comes to the most important decision this country will have made for years we say that Parliament must

have decisions

imposed upon them by every Tom, **** and Harry, many of whom haven't got a clue what the issues are. It does make a mockery of the argument that the EU takes away the sovereignty of the British Parliament when we are already doing it oursleves!

 

Just as a matter of interest, those who assume that leaving the EU will give us control of our borders again are rather mistaken. Norway is not in the EU but is part of the EEC - the trading component of it. In order to accept the right to trade within the EU they have had to accept free movement of workers from the EU into Norway. We would have to do exactly the same. They pay £360 million into the EU budget each year but sit outside in the corridor when any decisions are made. And before anyone jumps on that figure, remember Norway is about a twelfth the size of the UK in population terms. They have to pay tarrifs on a number of goods - 400% on French cheese apparently!

 

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Jacko51;2182926]I object in principle to the referendum.

We elect MPs to make decisions, hopefully informed decisions, on our behalf but when it comes to the most important decision this country will have made for years we say that Parliament must

 

Yes, we elect MP's to make decisions, but when part of EU foreign unelected people from other countries will be making the decisions. As Cameron said in his speech, 'We will be able to influence the decisions made by the EU'.

[Jacko51]

 

Do you think I would like to go to Africa at the moment? It's being ran by extremist muslims.

 

The entire continent? Every country? I must have missed that.

[TheJoker]

 

 

 

 

Believe in your countries people or watch the nation turn into a 3rd world state (It is already)

 

 

[Jinkin John Jeffers]

Boris joining the Out campaign is a massive boost to them.

[whotobeakiller]

Africa is a continent not a country. Perhaps you missed that day at school?

 

I responded to your statement saying Africa was poor. So I assume you were referring to the poorer parts of Africa which are indeed poor. Yes I am aware it is a continent...just going along with your world of make believe

[whotobeakiller]

The entire continent? Every country? I must have missed that.

 

Just the Northern parts I believe at the moment

[whotobeakiller]

 

To the 'Joker'

 

"It is already" meaning The country is TURNING into a 3rd world state...comprehension not your strongest point is it

[Mario]

I just hope the Britain In campaign can do a good job of promoting the lies spread by the likes of UKIP on what happens in the EU, the biggest problem with the EU is that so many people don't actually understand what it does. People see headlines in newspapers with a vested interest in one particular outcome, it is far from a perfect organisation, as frankly is any level of government from local and national government in the UK to the EU. That doesn't mean we should just throw it all away, the benefits of an imperfect EU far out weigh us being on the outside of Europe peering in.

 

The world, as it exists now, is far different than it was 10, 20, 30 or more years ago. The issues which impact our country are increasingly global in nature, be they economic, political or environmental. Isolating ourselves off as that special little island is not going to help us deal with those problems.

 

I understand the frustrations people have with immigration and EU benefits, but as has already been highlighted a number of studies including one by LSE have highlighted that immigration to Britain is actually economically positive to this country, not negative. Furthermore the EU as a whole is value for money, especially if you live anywhere outside of London. The EU has invested billions through the EU Structural Fund in infrastructure through out the UK, many many millions have been invested in Stoke-on-Trent alone on regeneration projects and infrastructure. This is often lost in fake arguments about straight bananas and polish plumbers.

 

That doesn't even begin to get into the levels of environmental protection we have through EU law. There are many benefits to EU membership, losing it could cost this country its future, i would urge anyone who is intending to vote to leave to look beyond immigration to the benefits of the EU before they make a decision.

 

http://www.strongerin.co.uk/

 

The stay in brigade would have had us in the Euro,look where we would have ended up in that situation.

[Bycarsbill]

Boris joining the Out campaign is a massive boost to them.

 

And an even BIGGER boost to Boris's leadership ambitions! Cynical political manoeuvering of the highest order--but all the Tory grassroots brigade will love him for it!

[Bycarsbill]

I object in principle to the referendum. We elect MPs to make decisions, hopefully informed decisions, on our behalf but when it comes to the most important decision this country will have made for years we say that Parliament must have decisions imposed upon them by every Tom, **** and Harry, many of whom haven't got a clue what the issues are. It does make a mockery of the argument that the EU takes away the sovereignty of the British Parliament when we are already doing it oursleves!

 

Just as a matter of interest, those who assume that leaving the EU will give us control of our borders again are rather mistaken. Norway is not in the EU but is part of the EEC - the trading component of it. In order to accept the right to trade within the EU they have had to accept free movement of workers from the EU into Norway. We would have to do exactly the same. They pay £360 million into the EU budget each year but sit outside in the corridor when any decisions are made. And before anyone jumps on that figure, remember Norway is about a twelfth the size of the UK in population terms. They have to pay tarrifs on a number of goods - 400% on French cheese apparently!

 

Greenland withdrew from the Economic Community a while ago and it took 6 years to sort out the exit - and all they were talking about was fish!

 

I don't agree with you about the referendum--surely that is the ultimate in democracy? But I do agree with you that continuing and creating new trading arrangements will be far mor complicated than the 'out brigade' would have us believe. You're totally correct on your example of Greenland and when we entered the Common Market in 1973 it took New Zealand almost 2 decades to replace the trade it had lost with us because of our union with Europe--be careful what you 'outers' wish for. PS That last bit is not aimed at you!

[stupers]

I object in principle to the referendum. We elect MPs to make decisions, hopefully informed decisions, on our behalf but when it comes to the most important decision this country will have made for years we say that Parliament must have decisions imposed upon them by every Tom, **** and Harry, many of whom haven't got a clue what the issues are. It does make a mockery of the argument that the EU takes away the sovereignty of the British Parliament when we are already doing it oursleves!

 

Just as a matter of interest, those who assume that leaving the EU will give us control of our borders again are rather mistaken. Norway is not in the EU but is part of the EEC - the trading component of it. In order to accept the right to trade within the EU they have had to accept free movement of workers from the EU into Norway. We would have to do exactly the same. They pay £360 million into the EU budget each year but sit outside in the corridor when any decisions are made. And before anyone jumps on that figure, remember Norway is about a twelfth the size of the UK in population terms. They have to pay tarrifs on a number of goods - 400% on French cheese apparently!

 

Greenland withdrew from the Economic Community a while ago and it took 6 years to sort out the exit - and all they were talking about was fish!

 

I have to disagree with that opinion Jacko. It's been 41 years (I wasn't even born then) since we last had a proper debate and referendum on Europe and that has been way too long for an issue such as this. Europe and our relationship with Europe has changed immeasurably since that point. Of course we elect MPs to make decisions, but this is a cross party issue that isn't defined by whether you support Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems etc. The official I voted for in the GE may not have the same opinion as me on Europe, so how is he/she representing my views in parliament on such a fundamental issue. I didn't vote for them on the sole basis of a Leave/Stay decision in the EU. You also can't accept that people are capable of making a decision to vote for electing an MP to make decisions in parliament, then say they are incapable of making an informed decision at a referendum.

 

The ever so informed Wikipedia page says we have had 2 referendums in the United Kingdom as a whole. The original Europe referendum in 1975 and then the Alternative vote in 2011. It's not as if we just have referendums for the sake of it. They're used when the issue is big enough that it breaks the usual parameters of party politics, as shown by the numbers of MPs from Labour and Conservatives who have taken different sides.

 

The two issues above (40 years, cross party issue) are enough alone to justify a referendum. Add that to the fact that the Common Market (as it was back then) has changed into the EU, along with many, many changes to its powers since then this was inevitable and justified. There's people that are in their late 50's that never had a say in being part of the EU, which is ridiculous when you think about it. We needed a debate, there is clearly a groundswell of support for leaving (UKIP are the largest single UK party in the European Parliament). Just because some people feel informed and feel some aren't isn't a reason for not having a referendum.

 

I await the two sides to put forward their full arguments for staying or leaving before I make a decision without all the scaremongering from either side. Scare tactics don't work with me, in fact they have the opposite effect. I'll also leave the two sides to iron out whether we'll be paying a tariff on French cheese or not if we leave. Have you tried an English brie? I can't tell the difference :D

[For Us All]

Time to leave the 'Gravy Train' and get back on track.Welcome aboard Boris.