Is Atheism Irrational?

[Andyregs]

I see it as quite a big problem in science that cause is looked at from bottom up. So its all electrons etc or evolution can have occurred entirely randomly given enough time. Top down causality is being underestimated or understated as a possibility. For example (from Through the Wormhole TV series) a choir can be looked at as being led by a conductor and it can be argued that its his brain's electrons etc that are producing his actions and the electrons of the brains of the rest of the choir are reacting. All bottom up. Or it can be accepted that cannot explain alone the coordination that the conductor is able to bring and why when he stops conducting the whole coordination and tunefulness of the choir disintegrates. There must be and is some top down causality (what we might call mind and also heart) in addition to the bottom up physics. At universe level, given our current understanding, it is from a research perspective wrong to dismiss the idea of top down causation and the different degrees to which it is needed. The research needs to continue at all levels of scientific study.

 

Can you explain the conductor but again. It became a bit wooly ('it can be accepted'...why?) and seemed to loose meaning.

The top down/ bottom down thing is misleading. It's whether there is evidence and not just assumption. Not having a starting point carved in stone then trying to make things fit. Being willing to follow te evidence and not trying he to make the evidence follow what you already want to be true.

[Andyregs]

Just trawling the tv channels...horizon: what happened before the Big Bang on bbc 4. Don't know if it will be any good. On now.

[Tone]

Just trawling the tv channels...horizon: what happened before the Big Bang on bbc 4. Don't know if it will be any good. On now.

 

Another "theory"?

[dun 4]

Another "theory"?

 

Yes, like the bible.

[Andyregs]

Another "theory"?

 

Obviously, but the point is that people are trying to answer what has previously been though of as unanswerable. Just like many previous claims of whoever wrote the bible thousands of years ago and didn't know what we do now. But the evidence they already have, and what they know as fact already proves genesis and the bible is wrong

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The programme was interesting

 

Multi universes, one ending with a bang then another starting all this going on for ever with no ultimate beginning and no ultimate end...sounds a bit like God..if this process can have gone on for ever and been going on before this universe came to be then why not God..could just be a name for the events and forces which caused this universe to come into being

[For Us All]

David Cameron getting in on the act?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10778564/Our-Christian-beliefs-are-under-attack-from-influential-and-militant-atheists.html

[Andyregs]

David Cameron getting in on the act?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10778564/Our-Christian-beliefs-are-under-attack-from-influential-and-militant-atheists.html

 

he is right in that historically and culturally we are/were a christian nation. Are we now? I disagree. Many put christain on their census form who aren't christian. They put it more as an ethnic group than a religion if that makes sense. He then ends up dishing out the usual 'being christian makes you a better person' crap, and goes on a rant against gay marriage.

Are we a christian nation, on paper yes, in practice no. Should we, absolutely not. Religion has no place in politics whch needs rational thought not policies based on 2000 yr old morals.

[aspins-revenge]

http://www.secularism.org.uk/

 

For any-one that's interested. The national secular society.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

We are...we have an established church, most people who are religious are Christian, our laws largely have a Christian basis, most of our establishments have a Christian basis, our attitudes largely have a Christian basis, not being a church goer/or not praying doesn't make you a

non-Christian..it's all about what's in your head and your heart

 

There is no ranting;I am always disappointed how intolerant non-believers are towards believers..describing views they don't agree with as "rants"

 

Should we be..of course we should if that's what people want..who am as as a non-believer to dictate to those who believe should they be or become a majority..I'm quite happy as a non-beleiver living in a Christian society. I have no desire for this country to become a more religious nation b ut if that's what the people want then so be it..I can always go and live somewhere else I find more agreeable

[Houston Valiant]

Groan, not this again.

[Andyregs]

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Pesky Christians..they do love to crucify people and execute people generally don't they and as for wanting people criminalised cos they don't have Christian beliefs or want to pursue non-Christian activities..they're always at it aren't they

[Warren]

I am most impressed religion wise by Buddhism and Taoism. I feel that much of the scientific output is too bottom up and not top down in terms of creationism and Taoism bridges the gap explaining how logic and programming can substantially exist mathematically throughout the universe with a force that doesn't involve a god like figure from Christianity.

 

Nonetheless, I have become questioning of astronomy and astro physics generally. I ask are we living in a giant computer programme and why are stars so far away. The nearest is 4 light years and unreachable by a carbon life form such as humans ever. So do these stars exist are are they part of a computer programme whey enough always comes in to existence whenever an exploration needs it to to provide evidence for beliefs that everything is real.

[Andyregs]

I am most impressed religion wise by Buddhism and Taoism. I feel that much of the scientific output is too bottom up and not top down in terms of creationism and Taoism bridges the gap explaining how logic and programming can substantially exist mathematically throughout the universe with a force that doesn't involve a god like figure from Christianity.

 

Nonetheless, I have become questioning of astronomy and astro physics generally. I ask are we living in a giant computer programme and why are stars so far away. The nearest is 4 light years and unreachable by a carbon life form such as humans ever. So do these stars exist are are they part of a computer programme whey enough always comes in to existence whenever an exploration needs it to to provide evidence for beliefs that everything is real.

 

Really gone off the deep end now!

You have mentioned this top down instead of bottom up idea before, and when asked to explain you disappeared. At the moment,what you have said means nothing without any more explanation or context. You can't write off the whole of science with one meaningless sentence.

As for the computer programme, it has as little (or as much) evidence for it as creationism, the spaghetti monster, or a world on the shell of a giant turtles (turtles all the way down). Just because you can imagine it doesn't make it rational, and is absolutely no basis to start questioning Astronomy. And even if we take a massive jump and presume it is true, it doesn't answer anything. Who are running he computer...etc...etc...back to where we started.