Two guilty of Lee Rigby murder.

[Andyregs]

If it promotes terror attacks,yes.

Prisons have been identified as one of the major breeding grounds for terrorism-related extremism and Belmarsh Prison in south-east London,which detains some of the most dangerous extremists in the country and where 20 per cent of inmates are Muslim,

currently houses more than 30 terrorist prisoners and prison staff believe extremist views were “widely disseminated” among Muslim inmates.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of religion, but would also defend the right for people to believe in what they want as long as it doesn't affect others lives in any way. It's not as easy as people seem to think. First you have to decide what is 'extremist', and then find a way to stop these ideas being talked about.

[Paul6754]

So it's only Muslim murderers we are talking about then?

 

Anyone committed to Jihad.

 

You have no idea or evidence it would reduce crimes that have only ever happened a handful of times, yet anyone with immigrant families 5 generations back who did something wrong should have less rights?

You say it hasn't struck me that the lock them up and throw away the key strategy is not working?

How many Muslims terrorists who have committed terrorist acts in British soil have we locked up and thrown away the key for? Sorry, but it's all just unsubstantiated, sensationalised, ranting at the moment.

 

The only known fact is that the "Throw away the key tactic" isn't working as the atrocities still keep happening and its ca 7 years after the London bombings. A "handful" is a handful too many and you shouldn't be dismissive of them, also, you conveniently forget the many thwarted by the security services which cost money that could be spent on hospitals, schools etc. A handful of cold, callous murders in the name of any god is totally unacceptable and reminiscent of the middle ages. I'm afraid the only unsubstantiated, sensationalised, ranting at the moment is from yourself, there's no logic to any of your points.

 

How do you know the key has been thrown away for any of them, as far as I know none of their cases have come up for review/parole yet and in the not to distant the anticipated appeals all the way to the EUCHR will begin.

[Andyregs]

Anyone committed to Jihad.

 

 

 

The only known fact is that the "Throw away the key tactic" isn't working as the atrocities still keep happening and its ca 7 years after the London bombings. A "handful" is a handful too many and you shouldn't be dismissive of them, also, you conveniently forget the many thwarted by the security services which cost money that could be spent on hospitals, schools etc. A handful of cold, callous murders in the name of any god is totally unacceptable and reminiscent of the middle ages. I'm afraid the only unsubstantiated, sensationalised, ranting at the moment is from yourself, there's no logic to any of your points.

 

How do you know the key has been thrown away for any of them, as far as I know none of their cases have come up for review/parole yet and in the not to distant the anticipated appeals all the way to the EUCHR will begin.

 

Sorry, that's just total nonsense. I'll ask again, how many Muslim extremists who have committed terrorist attacks on Uk soil have we locked up for life? You say this is the only fact, yet give no evidence. It's not me who needs to give any substance to this argument, because it's your claim which is as of yet unsubstantiated. Whatever can be claimed with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence.

I'm not dismissive of them at all, I'm saying we shouldn't rip up our freedoms because of a couple of people. Of course murdering in the name of some imaginary deity is unacceptable, no one is arguing differently. But to say what you are saying and them claim others have no logic is laughable. What you propose is not only wrong, but totally logistically impossible.

 

Oh, and all Muslims are committed to jihad. It's a central part of their faith.

[Paul6754]

Which goes completely against how the law works in the UK..we don't go around banning things cos they might happen

 

I believe the law was amended recently to include those knowing of or involved in the planning etc of an act of terrorism. Its a good job "The police do go around banning things cos they might happen" cause if they didn't many more people would have died from Jihad inspired terrorism. Have you been through an airport security line recently? A move from sleepy Devon into the real world would not go amiss.

 

 

A muslim wrongly accused and wrongly on trial may well have lived as a religious law abiding person so why should he not have his koran avaiable to him? Innocent until proven guilty

 

Have answered this above.

 

 

You want to shackle the innocent? Not all Muslims on trial are guilty..have we become medieval

 

Ditto

 

 

 

I asked why you believe he was being truthful in saying that when he's a lying murderer..why do you believe that statement, why not everything else he said?

 

Ditto

 

So you want separate law that only applies to Muslims? You're giving them what the more extreme want..division

 

I am all for encouraging the Mulsim community to do their bit but punishing people not proven to have commiited a crime? A step too far for me..we don't deport British citizens[

 

No, only people involved in Jihad

 

 

 

To be applied to ALL martyrs regardless of why tbey are doing it? If an ordinary bloke form say Hanley did this in the name of, say, workers rights then he should be treated the same and his family the same as well cos they may have known what he was planning?

 

Ditto

 

 

 

I am somewhat aware of what some Muslims do and have done

 

And will continue to do in the future and you're OK with that?

 

Do what you advocate and we all lose, we all lose freedoms, we become divided..Muslims are just as much a part of UK society as anyone else but you want separate laws that only apply to them? Souhnds like what some of them want re Sharia Law

 

We're all losing at the moment and law abiding muslims are very much part of UK society.

 

 

If the deterrent you propose is likely to achieve such success then why not apply it to everyone and all heinous crimes..irrespective of whether it's anything to do with Muslims/Jihad?

 

Only evidence? So not proof, no trial, no conviction? "interested in"? Hou want to punish people cos of their interests? Deport Uk citizens cos they might have known something? By all means punish them when it's proven that they knew something and didn't act but due process must be followed and surely should apply to all similarly heinous crime.

 

I want to stop this but not at the cost that you propose

 

We have hard fought freedoms in the UK and I'm not in favour of giving them up

 

Evidence means proof. Planning or knowing and failing to report a terrorist attack is a crime under British Law. In another 50 years or so your hard fought freedoms could well be at risk. So what do you propose to reduce/prevent these jihadist attacks.

[Paul6754]

Sorry, that's just total nonsense. I'll ask again, how many Muslim extremists who have committed terrorist attacks on Uk soil have we locked up for life? You say this is the only fact, yet give no evidence. It's not me who needs to give any substance to this argument, because it's your claim which is as of yet unsubstantiated. Whatever can be claimed with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence.

 

Far too many and I'll ask you again, how do you know its for life, I'll answer that question for you, you don't. What point are you trying to make.

 

I'm not dismissive of them at all, I'm saying we shouldn't rip up our freedoms because of a couple of people. Of course murdering in the name of some imaginary deity is unacceptable, no one is arguing differently. But to say what you are saying and them claim others have no logic is laughable. What you propose is not only wrong, but totally logistically impossible.

 

"Because of a couple of people" how many people have died in Jihadist terror attacks in Britain, its many more than a couple.

Why/how is it logistically impossible.

 

Oh, and all Muslims are committed to jihad. It's a central part of their faith.

 

Yep, scary isn't it but thankfully the majority interprete its meaning differently.

[Andyregs]

Far too many and I'll ask you again, how do you know its for life, I'll answer that question for you, you don't. What point are you trying to make.

 

 

 

"Because of a couple of people" how many people have died in Jihadist terror attacks in Britain, its many more than a couple.

Why/how is it logistically impossible.

 

 

 

Yep, scary isn't it but thankfully the majority interprete its meaning differently.

 

Far too many, yet you can't give one example. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

Second point, I was talking about the people committing it, not the victims.

 

Thirdly, it's logistically impossible because how on earth are you going to produce a law that enable government to hold 3-5 generations of a family responsible for one mans crime. Does it include all kids, parents? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? Etc. And then how are you going to force a foreign country to take them in, when they and their parents were born in the UK? And you say it's me being illogical?

 

Lastly, so not everyone committed to jihad then.

[Paul6754]

Far too many, yet you can't give one example. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

Second point, I was talking about the people committing it, not the victims.

 

Still not sure what point you're trying to make and it's relevance.

 

Thirdly, it's logistically impossible because how on earth are you going to produce a law that enable government to hold 3-5 generations of a family responsible for one mans crime. Does it include all kids, parents? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? Etc. And then how are you going to force a foreign country to take them in, when they and their parents were born in the UK? And you say it's me being illogical?

 

Nothing is impossible. I'm suggesting 3-4 generations of immediate family members down a line and any relative whom there is evidence/proof of interest/commitment to radical Jihad. Where is the information that any country would have to be "Forced to take anyone in". Stop trying to sensationalize.

 

Lastly, so not everyone committed to jihad then.

 

You intimated that not me.

[Andyregs]

Still not sure what point you're trying to make and it's relevance.

 

 

 

Nothing is impossible. I'm suggesting 3-4 generations of immediate family members down a line and any relative whom there is evidence/proof of interest/commitment to radical Jihad. Where is the information that any country would have to be "Forced to take anyone in". Stop trying to sensationalize.

 

 

 

You intimated that not me.

 

You said it was a fact that locking them up for life hadn't worked, so I asked for examples.

 

You already changed the conditions for deportation since you first posted. More of a rant than a well thought out proposal. And of course some things are impossible. Even more are I'll thought out.

And I wasn't trying to sensationalise anything. That was you, suggesting we deport people who were born in the UK!

 

And lastly, your actual words were 'anyone committed to jihad'! Amazing!

[Paul6754]

You said it was a fact that locking them up for life hadn't worked, so I asked for examples.

 

The fact these atrocities keep happening and more would happen if it wasn't for the security services.

 

You already changed the conditions for deportation since you first posted. More of a rant than a well thought out proposal. And of course some things are impossible. Even more are I'll thought out.

And I wasn't trying to sensationalise anything. That was you, suggesting we deport people who were born in the UK!

 

So what, karm down, karm down.

 

And lastly, your actual words were 'anyone committed to jihad'! Amazing!

 

Yes I'm not in favour of "Holy war" on the streets of the UK, aren't you.

[Andyregs]

The fact these atrocities keep happening and more would happen if it wasn't for the security services.

 

 

 

So what, karm down, karm down.

 

 

 

Yes I'm not in favour of "Holy war" on the streets of the UK, aren't you.

 

More 'facts' with no substance. It's obvious you have now given up on any logical argument, so keep ranting away, I'll give this thread a miss. I don't even think you know what you believe before you type it out.

[Guppy 4 England]

Lets face it the British justice system doesn't work. Prison is an easy life and hardly a bad way to spend 35years. Some homeless people purposely commit crimes to spend winter in prison.

 

The fact these scumbags are able to waste so much tax payers money and continue to do so in prison is beyond belief.

 

There's a reason our economy is on the floor , I see public sector workers moaning about pay , benefits etc. But what about the endless amount of money wasted on stupid cases like this and that Hamza bloke and those doctors who tried to blow up the airport. What kind of atrocity will it take before we take action. Blowing up canary wharf ? Suicide bombing of an airport, football stadium, theatre ? Still lets keep brain dead morons like these two alive to make them learn their lesson . What happens when they preach to the young criminal Muslims already in prison who are released next week ? It's a breeding ground for terrorists by keeping them alive

[Andyregs]

Lets face it the British justice system doesn't work. Prison is an easy life and hardly a bad way to spend 35years. Some homeless people purposely commit crimes to spend winter in prison.

 

The fact these scumbags are able to waste so much tax payers money and continue to do so in prison is beyond belief.

 

There's a reason our economy is on the floor , I see public sector workers moaning about pay , benefits etc. But what about the endless amount of money wasted on stupid cases like this and that Hamza bloke and those doctors who tried to blow up the airport. What kind of atrocity will it take before we take action. Blowing up canary wharf ? Suicide bombing of an airport, football stadium, theatre ? Still lets keep brain dead morons like these two alive to make them learn their lesson . What happens when they preach to the young criminal Muslims already in prison who are released next week ? It's a breeding ground for terrorists by keeping them alive

 

So are you suggesting we don't have court cases? Just kill them judge dread style?

[Guppy 4 England]

So are you suggesting we don't have court cases? Just kill them judge dread style?

 

I'm suggesting a radical reform of our justice system, one that puts fear into the minds of these idiots.

[Andyregs]

I'm suggesting a radical reform of our justice system, one that puts fear into the minds of these idiots.

 

You haven't suggested anything yet.

[geosname]

I'm suggesting a radical reform of our justice system, one that puts fear into the minds of these idiots.

 

How exactly would you reform it?