One of those games where we give it a go in the last 20 minutes, been a few like that this season, only thing is we gave them a 3 goal head start. Don’t know if it was our tactics today or just the players didn’t perform but sit off them and we make them look good, press and attack and they looked naff.

Carlisle are not a good team, a few useful players but hey are not as good as Bromley or Bradford who we recently stuffed. 

2 minutes ago, matmat said:

Can we stop with this utter <ovf censored> about 'them wanting it more'. Do you really think our players went there today thinking 'meh, I know we are fighting for promotion & the league title, but I think I'll just take it easy today'? We didn't play well & we conceded some terrible goals. At 3-0 down the players could have been despondent, but fought there way back into the game & could have come away with something.

The reality is in this league there isn't a great deal between any of the sides, as can be seen by our results & the teams around us. If you have an off-day you're not that much better than the opposition quality wise that you can get a result anyway.

Rather than needing to 'have a good look at themselves' what the players actually need is some support from their 'supporters'. It's a tough day & we need to bounce back, 3 to go, let's get right behind the lads on Monday.

Have you ever played football?  Did you watch the game?  If both teams played like they did today their positions would be far different so somethings different.  Nobody is saying that the players actually thought “I’ll take it easy today”, it’s a sub-conscious thing.  We’ve done it all season, played far better against the top sides than the strugglers.  Folk say goals change games, which they do.  Often the team scoring the goal then find an extra few percent from somewhere, it’s psychological.  I’d say today we were complacent, arrogant maybe after recent results.  If you allow teams to play, even poor teams can play at this level, as you’ve alluded to.  The players did keep going, but no way can you say we started like a house on fire or played with any real tempo until we scored.  Carlisle played with a bit of fire in their bellies and we have to match that as a bare minimum.  I’ll take losing games but if I see our opponents winning every second ball for 60 minutes I think it’s fair to criticise.

The players were below their levels, pretty much to a man, so yes, “have a look at themselves”.  That’s what you do.

In terms of support, they’ll get support, they’ve had great support this season.  I’ll be there myself, I’ve been today, I’ve to every game bar one, supported, good or bad.  In actual fact you’ve said the players had an “off day”, so perhaps they should go and have a look at why that was, address that before Monday, and make sure it’s not repeated.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/carlisle-united-vs-port-vale/stats/508746

It's worth looking at the passing accuracy for this game. If you give the ball away 40% of the time you pass it you are unlikely to win games of football. I suspect those stats were far worse before we scored our first goal. The last time I saw us give the ball away as cheaply was a defeat away at Rochdale towards the end of the Adams promotion.  

I just genuinely think the players were due an off game. That was our third loss in 20 (one of them the rotated side vs Barrow). It’s League 2 football and inconsistency is built in.

I think it’s only the second game we’ve lost all season with Garrity and Tolaj starting - the other the 3-2 home defeat to Doncaster.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with ‘wanting it’ as I’m sure every player is absolutely desperate to go up.

Sometimes you lose games of football, especially at this level, for no ascribable reason. We want to attach labels to it and make sense of it, but we were on an excellent and unsustainable run of form.

Tolaj rolls his pen the other way and we commend the character of the comeback. It’s that tight of a margin.

We go again Monday, thankfully. It’s only going to take one win.

28 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Sometimes you lose games of football, especially at this level, for no ascribable reason. We want to attach labels to it and make sense of it, but we were on an excellent and unsustainable run of form.

Tolaj rolls his pen the other way and we commend the character of the comeback. It’s that tight of a margin.

We go again Monday, thankfully. It’s only going to take one win.

Joe it's not just our level,  ask Real Madrid. Liverpool lost to Plymouth, Forest and Fulham this season. Garrity and Croasdale have been our most consistent players this season. They have both had odd poor games, yesterday they both had poor games. Both came through non league, probably because they aren't natural distributors and have had to work on their passing.  When they have a bad game they struggle to pass 5 feet. You'd bet your garden shed that both will do much better if fit on Monday.  

1 hour ago, JRC said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/carlisle-united-vs-port-vale/stats/508746

It's worth looking at the passing accuracy for this game. If you give the ball away 40% of the time you pass it you are unlikely to win games of football. I suspect those stats were far worse before we scored our first goal. The last time I saw us give the ball away as cheaply was a defeat away at Rochdale towards the end of the Adams promotion.  

That match was a 1-1 draw and if I remember correctly we had a dodgy disallowed goal towards the end?

Watching the highlights this morning, they are 3 dreadful goals to concede. Really bad day at the office yesterday.

We just didn't match the desire and workrate yesterday. If we play like that again we will not win another game. 

Very disappointing display but at least we have a quick home game to try and get over it - I'm expecting a few changes for Monday.

1 hour ago, MBE said:

Watching the highlights this morning, they are 3 dreadful goals to concede. Really bad day at the office yesterday.

We just didn't match the desire and workrate yesterday. If we play like that again we will not win another game. 

Very disappointing display but at least we have a quick home game to try and get over it - I'm expecting a few changes for Monday.

I don’t think he will make any changes and I don’t think he needs too 

The team that started yesterday, put us in an amazing chance of getting promotion and winning a title.

Top of the league with 3 games to go, is unbelievable.

Everyone of them deserves to start Monday to put it right and they will.

 

Edited April 19, 20251 yr by Brian Johnson

Ruminating on things for the last hour or so whilst walking the dog helps to get a more balanced perspective. Yes we are all gutted at the result and/or performance but if you had offered us this points tally for the next 8 games 8 games ago we would all have taken it in a heartbeat, especially with the teams we had to play. So here we are, with probably more points than we would have expected. It is disappointing to continually experience poor performances and results against bottom of the table teams, but hey, that's the Vale. The title let alone promotion is still entirely in our own hands and isn't that a good place to be with 3 to go?

53 minutes ago, BlytheValiant said:

That match was a 1-1 draw and if I remember correctly we had a dodgy disallowed goal towards the end?

2-2

Off the top of my head it was a Chilvers OG, Pope equalised, Chilvers 89th min would be winner, then Loft didn’t jump to compete for a header in injury time and they equalised 

13 hours ago, Osh said:

I don't think it was anything to do with the defence. We had zero midfield for close on 50 mins. If you have zero midfield then the defence is constantly under pressure. 

Both things are true, the midfield looked disorganised and extremely open until Byers came on to sit in front of them and didn't deviate from his central position. The WB's struggled to cope with both wings, Shorrock was 2 v 1 a lot in that 1st half allowing them to freely put balls in the box, the midfield couldn't figure out who should be tracking who, Kelly out jumped and outmuscled all 3 CB's throughout the game who looked like they were towing caravans for the game. All 3 CB's didn't attack balls in the box, they were waiting for the ball to come to them and looked a bag of nerves. Kelly really unsettled them. I lost count the number of times Debrah, in particular, allowed Dennis to get a run on him and lost a header. A woeful display from the 3 CB's.

The energy and intensity just wasn't there from our lads as a team.

I really can't figure out why we stood off and allowed them to pass a ball around to gain confidence. We have been at our best when we have been aggresive. Whenever we had the ball we were under constant pressure from Carlisle. Huge difference in attitude and approach which I find the most disappointing part of the game. We were basically outworked and deserved to lose.

Now we have played all the bottom clubs we have a poor record against them. It's either tactical or attitude problem, yesterday I thought it was a bit of both. 

18 minutes ago, Old School said:

Ruminating on things for the last hour or so whilst walking the dog helps to get a more balanced perspective. Yes we are all gutted at the result and/or performance but if you had offered us this points tally for the next 8 games 8 games ago we would all have taken it in a heartbeat, especially with the teams we had to play. So here we are, with probably more points than we would have expected. It is disappointing to continually experience poor performances and results against bottom of the table teams, but hey, that's the Vale. The title let alone promotion is still entirely in our own hands and isn't that a good place to be with 3 to go?

Yes, but it for me it is difficult not to have lingering concerns given it was the nature of the defeat rather than the result.

If it was 3 McGoldrick at Bradford strikes then fair enough, nowt you can do.

But it wasn't. Many people aren't going to want to hear it but if we're actually honest with ourselves, we folded. We need that same realism is being honest with ourselves that some of these players would be a liability in the league above. 

I haven't watched it back and I'm not going to because I suspect a court would deem being made to relive that to be cruel and unusual punishment, but christ we folded. Forget the stepping off, giving them 10 yards of space, the non-existent midfield, the panicked clearances from the back every 30 seconds just coming straight back, the forwards struggling to win a header and make it stick up top, and just concentrate on the goals. We were so incredibly weak, immobile, complacent, completely lacking any sort of grit or aggression or pride. We completely folded. It's unacceptable. Debrah and Smith went for the same header for the 3rd and neither actually <ovf censored> jumped. 47 mins, 3-0. Where's the leadership in the team, marshalling, organising, inspiring? I'm not seeing one anywhere in the backline. That's probably more an issue for next season but for these last 3 games, they seriously need to get a grip. 

Edited April 19, 20251 yr by Doha

16 hours ago, Doha said:

3-1 down, 24 mins left of normal time. Offside given against us, Debrah chooses to roll the ball out of touch and slows the game down instead of getting it over for the free kick. What is wrong with him?

I still can't come up with an explanation for this, btw. He took forever when losing in the second half to take throw-ins as well. 

It's the same issue for the entire team bar Clark, to an extent Tolaj and Stockley. Where was the impetus? Where was the performance Wimbledon put in when we were beating them 3-2 with time left? Certainly not at <ovf censored> Brunton Park yesterday. 

11 hours ago, Tony Rodriguez said:

I have just been on Wikipedia to find out who their number 43 was as I thought he was excellent.

Callum Whelan. On loan to us in 2019. Absolutely no recollection of him whatsoever.

He had a very good game but I think I would have looked an excellent player yesterday in his position with the amount of time and space we allowed him. Probably the easiest afternoon of his season.

If memory serves me right I don't think he even made a match day squad.

Edited April 19, 20251 yr by MBE