15 hours ago, johnjeffersfanclub said:

I don't want to see huge upheaval, just improvements in a few key places. GK, CB and CF. Bringing on some young players (Shorrock, Walters, Debrah, Tolaj) and keeping the core of the promotion experienced heads (Garrity, Cros, Stockley, Byers, Clark etc.)

Too much change has to stop.

Debrah is 25, 7 years older than Shorrock, and Tolaj will be 24 before Shorrock us 19.

Debrah and Tolaj have little or no experience of league 1, but it's wrong to bracket them with Walters and Shorrock as youngsters.

Championship OOC 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB2

L1 OOC (Northampton have 22 players OOC, out of a 31 man squad!)

https://www.transfermarkt.com/league-one/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB3

L2 OOC

https://www.transfermarkt.com/league-two/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB4

NL OOC

https://www.transfermarkt.com/national-league/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/CNAT

SPL OOC 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/scottish-premiership/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/SC1

17 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

Here is food for thought in regards to what we will be up against next season.

In the same league with Luton Town who will receive another £60 million plus in parachute payments next season to go on top of the £60 million plus they got this season 

EFL prize money for Championship, League One & League Two clubs

WWW.BBC.COM

According to the BBC a little less. It also reduces further in season 2 (40m) and by season 3 only (17m). That said 17m is probably 5 times our entire playing budget!

The reality is the best players will end up at Luton. After that it's Cardiff, Plymouth (Championship parachute payments) and Bolton (bigger crowds). Orient and Wycombe still made the top 6 with no real financial advantages!

 

 

41 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

Yeah, sounds like he's about as much use as the flick was for us. 

 

 

Ricky Martin lands first role since leaving Stoke City - Stoke-on-Trent Live

WWW.STOKESENTINEL.CO.UK

He’s obviously Livin’ la vida loca……….  I’ll get me coat!

….duplicate post

Edited May 4, 20251 yr by Trumpingtonvale
Duplicate post

8 minutes ago, JRC said:

EFL prize money for Championship, League One & League Two clubs

WWW.BBC.COM

According to the BBC a little less. It also reduces further in season 2 (40m) and by season 3 only (17m). That said 17m is probably 5 times our entire playing budget!

The reality is the best players will end up at Luton. After that it's Cardiff, Plymouth (Championship parachute payments) and Bolton (bigger crowds). Orient and Wycombe still made the top 6 with no real financial advantages!

 

 

£40 million for Luton next season. Crazy 

20 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

£40 million for Luton next season. Crazy 

They should walk the league with the funds at their disposal. Unless they are using the parachute payments to fund their new ground.

2 hours ago, valefan79 said:

Feel like we have a much better team than the one that gained promotion in 2022, however for me another another 6/7 additions needed, a first choice keeper, 2 centre backs though would love to still keep Smithy as a back up, another midfielder as would be letting Harper and Lowe leave, would like to see if we can get Rico back.  Although he has not played much, when he comes on he creates so many chances, at league 1 when more football is played, feel he can be even better and another striker to play alongside Tolaj, Stockley at a higher level for me would be a good option from the bench.

Looking at league 1 it remains tougher than when we last went up, while there probably won't be 3 teams pushing 100 points like Plymouth, Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday did, in the league that year, there were lots of smaller teams like Forest Green, Morecambe, Accrington, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Fleetwood, Shrewsbury.  This year teams like Bolton, Huddersfield, Blackpool a fair number of points from the play-offs, Peterborough who easily beat  Birmingham in the football league final ended up just above the drop zone.  It is going to be a tough league and we are going have to recruit well and spend a lot to be competive.

We were 18th in terms of attendance with 6600 average in the relegation season. 6600 would have put us 16th this season.  Not sure it will be any tougher,  or easier. We've mainly been a well attended league 2/ about average league 1 for the 54 seasons I've been going. I agree it will be a tighter league than 23/24. There will be fewer natural Championship sides and more traditional league 1 sides. 

3 hours ago, PV1973 said:

Which is why the manager has to make a call on those 2 when we go back to a league where they arguably struggled last time round. You could also argue this season will have done them the world of good and they could have improved when we play in league one next season. 

Because they have developed under Moore and especially with Debrah Moore seems to trust him. It’s not just a case of they were rubbish last season in league 1 so they aren’t good enough. There is more to it than that. I’m not sure he will keep sang and if he does or doesn’t the player and manager need backing on that decision. I expect Debrah will be starting next season and will keep improving and potentially play at a higher level again 

1 hour ago, WV said:

Because they have developed under Moore and especially with Debrah Moore seems to trust him. It’s not just a case of they were rubbish last season in league 1 so they aren’t good enough. There is more to it than that. I’m not sure he will keep sang and if he does or doesn’t the player and manager need backing on that decision. I expect Debrah will be starting next season and will keep improving and potentially play at a higher level again 

People are getting carried away here. Let’s not make the same mistake again. If Debrah is starting next season, something’s gone seriously wrong. And I will say now, there is no way Debrah will ever play at championship level.

EDIT: thought I should make clear, I do like Debrah, think he’s a really nice lad with a good attitude and he’s obviously had a good season overall. It’s just hard to tell how much of his good season is down to the worse quality of league 2, and how much is down to improvement. If he stays and finds his way into playing next year due to good performances I’m more than happy. I just don’t think we can plan for him to be a starter, as that sort of mindset and we’ll be risking relegation.

Edited May 4, 20251 yr by Powerline

1 hour ago, EricHamesis said:

Debrah is 25, 7 years older than Shorrock, and Tolaj will be 24 before Shorrock us 19.

Debrah and Tolaj have little or no experience of league 1, but it's wrong to bracket them with Walters and Shorrock as youngsters.

I think 24 is pretty young for a footballer. I didn't mean they’re all the same age. 

Edited May 4, 20251 yr by johnjeffersfanclub

1 hour ago, Powerline said:

People are getting carried away here. Let’s not make the same mistake again. If Debrah is starting next season, something’s gone seriously wrong. And I will say now, there is no way Debrah will ever play at championship level.

EDIT: thought I should make clear, I do like Debrah, think he’s a really nice lad with a good attitude and he’s obviously had a good season overall. It’s just hard to tell how much of his good season is down to the worse quality of league 2, and how much is down to improvement. If he stays and finds his way into playing next year due to good performances I’m more than happy. I just don’t think we can plan for him to be a starter, as that sort of mindset and we’ll be risking relegation.

Vale had two division 4 promotions in 83 and 86. A number of players who came straight back down in 84 proved more than adequate when they returned. One even went on to play in The Premier League and in a World Cup. Players aren't born they develop. Ben Garrity was playing poorly at Oldham in a side that just about stayed in League 2 at 24. Equally there are players who were absolute stars at 24 playing non league at 29. I'd respectfully suggest that the coaching staff who work with a player today are probably in the best position to judge every players rate of progress and potential to play at a higher level in the 25/26 season.

7 minutes ago, JRC said:

Vale had two division 4 promotions in 83 and 86. A number of players who came straight back down in 84 proved more than adequate when they returned. One even went on to play in The Premier League and in a World Cup. Players aren't born they develop. Ben Garrity was playing poorly at Oldham in a side that just about stayed in League 2 at 24. Equally there are players who were absolute stars at 24 playing non league at 29. I'd respectfully suggest that the coaching staff who work with a player today are probably in the best position to judge every players rate of progress and potential to play at a higher level in the 25/26 season.

I’m not really sure how we can make the argument that it worked 40 years ago, therefore it will work now.

Your comparisons to Earle and Garrity also don’t really transfer to Debrah. I wasn’t alive then, but I’d imagine Earle showed signs of being able to play at a higher level when he was in the fourth tier. Likewise, Garrity at Oldham was being utilised as a defensive midfielder, where we identified he had qualities going forwards. At the end of the season in league 2, I’d argue there were clear signs he could make the step up.

In our current squad, I’d say Walters and Tolaj, to give two examples, show some signs they’d be capable at the division above if they develop further - potentially higher. With the greatest respect to him,  I’ve not seen a single thing from Debrah that suggests he could ever make championship level. There’s also nothing clear to show he can definitely cut it at league 1. How do we know his improvements this season aren’t down to it being league 2?

I agree the coaching staff are in a better position, but I’m also entitled to my opinion having watched most games this season. And I personally think it would be very poor planning to have Debrah as a starter in league 1, when there’s no guarantees he’s good enough for the level. If anything, prior evidence shows he is not. 

As I said previously, I’d be more than happy if we have him as a squad player, and through performing well, manages to get himself in the team and become a starter. But purposely identifying him as a starter in league 1 is asking for relegation. 

For me, he’s been the worst of the back 3 this season. He’s still played well, as we have one of the best defences in the league. But he’s far more prone to disaster performances such as Gillingham and Grimsby away than either Smith, Hall, or even Heneghan, and that will always concern me until he can demonstrate a higher level of consistency.

21 minutes ago, JRC said:

Vale had two division 4 promotions in 83 and 86. A number of players who came straight back down in 84 proved more than adequate when they returned. One even went on to play in The Premier League and in a World Cup. Players aren't born they develop. Ben Garrity was playing poorly at Oldham in a side that just about stayed in League 2 at 24. Equally there are players who were absolute stars at 24 playing non league at 29. I'd respectfully suggest that the coaching staff who work with a player today are probably in the best position to judge every players rate of progress and potential to play at a higher level in the 25/26 season.

The difference is chalk and cheese from the 80’s. I don’t think it’s comparable. 

The gap is massive now between all the leagues. 

I'd agree with the above, Debrah (and Smith as well) would both have to convince me they are good enough in League One as both were part of and culpable of some disaster performances towards the end of our relegation season. Against some fairly average-poor opposition in Shrewsbury, Lincoln and then the horror 2nd half collapse against Exeter as well.  Shrewsbury have gone down pretty pathetically this time but Lincoln and Exeter will be two of the sides we need to compete with and/or take points off to do better than a relegation scrap next season.  Hall has been our most consistent defender by far this season imo and would start over Smith and Debrah for me(admittedly Hall is left sided CB, Smith central and Debrah right sided so slightly different roles in the back 3) but I'll be disappointed if we don't sign a solid league one quality central defender(or 2 preferably).

That's not to say they can't or won't improve both have been decent this season for the most part and are of ages where improvement shouldn't be beyond them(Debrah particularly).  It's a squad game so some depth will be key and if both are retained will get their chances.