Is Mickey really that hard done to?

[Chopper Harris]

Micky was on RS stating that he knew he would be critised for retained list but as he was certain some of the players would not resign he needed to make sure he had sufficient numbers of players to start the season. The takeover deal is still not done. Many teams are strengthening and we are not. We can speculate that deals have been agreed but if I was a player and I was offered a contract from another team that I could sign straight away or a Vale contract that I may be able to sign in late June or July IF everything goes to plan I wouldnt be signing for the Vale. As the eternal pessimist I won't believe the deal is done until it's been given the FL ok. I think MOLD have conditioned me to expect the worst!

 

We all have different opinions on who should be on the retained list. Many people on here think McDonald is a good player so d him resigning. Personally I wouldn't have offered him a contract but MA obviously rates him. The main surprise on the retained list was the length of contract offered to Rob Taylor. It's 2 years too long!!!

 

Inny to be honest i didn't know that he had said that on Radio Stoke. But what i don't understand is why you thought my criticism about the retained list was a joke because actually i don't think it is unreasonable to question the decision to retain some of the players. Like the decision to retain McDonald and then be linked with Chilvers. However i understand that you could argue that if McDonald had been released then Chilvers would have been offered a new deal at Notts County or signed for someone else. The retained list has an impact on who we can bring in and being honest i was hoping for a clean sweep and to see us bring in a few more new faces.

 

I think some posters think that because people have criticised MA they just want him to fail. I certainly don't want that i want MA to succeed and get us promoted. i will congratulate him if he does a good job but also if i feel there are areas where he has done something that i don't agree with then criticism is also fair. Some posters on here have put MA above and beyond criticism. Posts such as 'he is the manager just back him etc" are common. I never saw posts like this when Gannon was in charge. I would put money on some of the same posters who are defending Adams now and won't hear of any criticism were actually criticising Gannon last year.

[fairportnick]

. And yes, as you ask, I have checked again and I am absolutely 100% sure I am not a Stoke fan.

 

Did you count your fingers and heads?

[Chopper Harris]

It's not unreasonable to speculate..but just accept that you don't know that he was referring to OVF.

 

 

 

To me it's important in the context of you claiming that he's been dishonest,,I cannot comprehend why you are even speculating over his honesty with absolutely nothing to support it. We KNOW that he has said that he has not read OVF

 

 

 

What? Why do I have to justify anything..you are the one making the claims against him. My justification is quite simple..he sasy that he has bnot read OVF..what is yours?

 

 

 

I do not know which website he is referring to..and neither do you

 

 

 

Your reasons are irrelevant..the accusation is the same

 

 

 

Speculating that someone has laid is the dame. If it's not what is the point of the speculation?

 

 

 

I'bve nevwer claimed that you have proof I just cannot understand why you are even claiming that he MAY have lied..incomprehensible why you think that

 

 

 

But they have the same source..you..so if you are prepared to base criticism on a 'feeling' I can't take any of the others seriously and undermines you as a credible source of criticism

 

 

 

It does not matter whether I agree or not, I need them to be based on something more than a 'feeling'..especially when making claims of dishonesty...when reading your original post I assumed that you had some insight but then discover that the major criticism is based on a feeling and some sort of mistrust of MA. I cannot understand why you think he 'may' be lying when the only facts we have are that he says that he does not read ovf. If we're going to judge him as dishonest based on a feeling then we might as well give up.

 

I have said on numerous occasions that i don't know for 100 per cent certain that he was on about OVF. Again for sake of repeating myself time and time again over this nonsensical point of yours that it is a good bet that it is OVF. You are the one claiming that it may not be OVF not me. You keep on about this point that it might not have been OVF yet when i ask you to help explain and perhaps provide evidence to support your argument not mine you flatly refuse. I have accepted that i don't know it is OVF ages ago, what point are you making. This makes no difference and is a minor detail. Maybe in your next post you could just copy and paste your last post because your posts now are just repetitive nonsense.

 

I can't take you seriously when really you are just being ignorant, probably because you either don't want to admit that you agree with my other points or you can't simply rebut any of the other points that i have raised. OVF is a forum of speculation and opinion based on feeling and evidence. Yes i agree my feelings or suspicions of MA possibly telling a lie may not be based on evidence but a feeling. But i have never claimed anything otherwise. If you read some of my earlier posts i have actually explained this rationale. This because of MA's strong opinions and because i find it hard to believe that he would make a media release against fans without checking the forum first himself. I have also said about the r indiscretion as to the reasons he left his Director post. This is enough to base a suspicion/feeling on. Why can't you see that this?

 

I find you hard to take seriously when all you seem to do is nit pick at the minor details which really aren't even worth talking about. So what if MA was talking about OVF or another football message forum. You are making a point over something that doesn't matter.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I have said on numerous occasions that i don't know for 100 per cent certain that he was on about OVF. Again for sake of repeating myself time and time again over this nonsensical point of yours that it is a good bet that it is OVF.

 

It's not nonsensical at all..he has said that he does not read OVF so why would you speculate that he is lying?

 

You are the one claiming that it may not be OVF not me.

 

I am claiming that something may not be true?? Yes cos there is no evidence that it is. And it's fact that it may not be OVF cos we don't know that it is

 

You keep on about this point that it might not have been OVF yet when i ask you to help explain and perhaps provide evidence to support your argument not mine you flatly refuse.

 

He has said that he does not reads OVF so that's good enough for me. You want me to prove that soemthing does not happen by proving that something else that may not happen does happen? You make the claims..I make none

 

I have accepted that i don't know it is OVF ages ago, what point are you making. This makes no difference and is a minor detail. Maybe in your next post you could just copy and paste your last post because your posts now are just repetitive nonsense.

 

Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?

 

I can't take you seriously when really you are just being ignorant, probably because you either don't want to admit that you agree with my other points or you can't simply rebut any of the other points that i have raised.

 

I have explained quite clealry why I felt that your credibility was undermined; all that you need to do is say to the effect of "I can understand I have based a serious accusation on a feeling which is in contradiction of the known facts"

 

OVF is a forum of speculation and opinion based on feeling and evidence. Yes i agree my feelings or suspicions of MA possibly telling a lie may not be based on evidence but a feeling. But i have never claimed anything otherwise. If you read some of my earlier posts i have actually explained this rationale. This because of MA's strong opinions and because i find it hard to believe that he would make a media release against fans without checking the forum first himself.

 

Why? He has said that he does not read OVF why can't you just believe him? It's very different having an opinion on say who should play at no 9 for us in the next match based on a feeling and claiming that MA may be a liar based on a feeling. See you now say you find it hard to belive..why?

 

I have also said about the r indiscretion as to the reasons he left his Director post. This is enough to base a suspicion/feeling on. Why can't you see that this?

 

I have asked you to clarify that and you have not done so . Are you saying that he may have lied then too?

 

I find you hard to take seriously when all you seem to do is nit pick at the minor details which really aren't even worth talking =about.

 

Apologies for seeing minor details as important when you are claiming based on a feeling that MA is possibly lying..I actually think that details are important in people's posts and that claim of yours is not a minor detail

 

So what if MA was talking about OVF or another football message forum. You are making a point over something that doesn't matter.

 

The point is not which forum he did or didn't use but your claims that he may be lying and that being based on a 'feeling'..that's where I started from and where I still am. Why even speculate that he is lying..the only known fact is that he says that he does not read OVF..end of.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Apologies for duplicate post..as if one isn't bad enough!!! :)

[Chopper Harris]

Apologies for duplicate post..as if one isn't bad enough!!! :)

 

To be honest i think you have pressed duplicate more than once over the last few days. This is going to be my last post replying because you are being silly to say that someone can't speculate that he was on about OVF. You said in your last two posts :) that "Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?".Well it is quite simple isn't it? MA didn't specify he gave us limited information. It is reasonable to to make an educated guess based on what he said. I guess you don't make educated guesses in your house. I suppose it never crossed your mind that he could have been on about OVF.

 

Again it is not unreasonable to ask the question i wonder if he has seen this first hand after he decided to go to the press.You say you are not naive but you are naive if you take people at face value all of the time.

 

You are not going to prove your points and neither am i and we are just going runs in circles now.

[Chopper Harris]

"Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?"

 

He actually hasn't said he does not read OVF. He actually said he doesn't read internet football forums. Now you are speculating that it is OVF.

[Memphis]

Who's Mickey?

[Chopper Harris]

Johnnyaitch you have made numerous posts stating that i shouldn't have speculated that MA was talking specifically about OVF when he just mentioned internet message board football forums. Yet you have posted in your posts the following.

 

"He has said that he does not reads OVF so that's good enough for me".

"Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?"

 

You rightly pointed out MA said that he doesn't read internet forum message boards and he doesn't specify OVF. So here in your posts you are speculating that he is talking about OVF. You can't have it both ways. Why can't i speculate that he was talking about OVF just like yourself?

 

You have made so many posts to reiterate this nonsense point of a trivial matter only to trip yourself up at the last hurdle.

 

You have undermined all of your posts now.You have said that i have undermined by credibility. Well i will give you some advice as well then. It may be an idea not to trip yourself up when making your arguments as other wise you will undermine your credibility as a poster.

 

Nevermind.

[carl]

Johnnyaitch you have made numerous posts stating that i shouldn't have speculated that MA was talking specifically about OVF when he just mentioned internet message board football forums. Yet you have posted in your posts the following.

 

"He has said that he does not reads OVF so that's good enough for me".

"Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?"

 

You rightly pointed out MA said that he doesn't read internet forum message boards and he doesn't specify OVF. So here in your posts you are speculating that he is talking about OVF. You can't have it both ways. Why can't i speculate that he was talking about OVF just like yourself?

 

You have made so many posts to reiterate this nonsense point of a trivial matter only to trip yourself up at the last hurdle.

 

You have undermined all of your posts now.You have said that i have undermined by credibility. Well i will give you some advice as well then. It may be an idea not to trip yourself up when making your arguments as other wise you will undermine your credibility as a poster.

 

Nevermind.

 

So I wasnt alone in thinking his posts came over somewhat patronising. Good post Chopper Harris. We're all Vale arent we?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

To be honest i think you have pressed duplicate more than once over the last few days.

 

I haven't but I do press an argument hat I feel strongly about

 

This is going to be my last post replying because you are being silly to say that someone can't speculate that he was on about OVF.

 

I think you know that my man point was why are you specuilating that he is lying..why are you claiming that he is lying. Whether it's about OVF or any other site is irrelevant

 

You said in your last two posts :) that "Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?".Well it is quite simple isn't it? MA didn't specify he gave us limited information. It is reasonable to to make an educated guess based on what he said. I guess you don't make educated guesses in your house. I suppose it never crossed your mind that he could have been on about OVF.[/quote

 

Why make an educated guess, why not just accept what he says? Of course it crossed my mind but he says he doesn't so why not believe him?

 

Again it is not unreasonable to ask the question i wonder if he has seen this first hand after he decided to go to the press.You say you are not naive but you are naive if you take people at face value all of the time.

 

And I have already told you that I don't and I am not. I am asking you why on this subject on this occasion you feel the need to speculate that he is being dishonest? Why don't you just accept what he says when you have no info to the contrary?

 

pQUOTE] You are not going to prove your points and neither am i and we are just going runs in circles now.

 

I have not made any points and so have none to prove. It is a fact that MA says that he does not read OVF and a fact that you are speculating that he is lying about that..why?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

"Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?"

 

He actually hasn't said he does not read OVF. He actually said he doesn't read internet football forums. Now you are speculating that it is OVF.

 

No I am not..if he doesn't read football forums then he doesn't read OVF. He says he doens't so that means he does not read OVF.You have made the claim that you know that he reads OVF and yet you have nothing to back up that claim.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Johnnyaitch you have made numerous posts stating that i shouldn't have speculated that MA was talking specifically about OVF when he just mentioned internet message board football forums. Yet you have posted in your posts the following.

 

"He has said that he does not reads OVF so that's good enough for me".

"Why even speculate that it is OVF when he has said that he does not read OVF?"

 

You rightly pointed out MA said that he doesn't read internet forum message boards and he doesn't specify OVF. So here in your posts you are speculating that he is talking about OVF. You can't have it both ways. Why can't i speculate that he was talking about OVF just like yourself?

 

I am not speculating that he is on about OVF..how can I be when he does not read ANY..OVF is just an example and the one I am most familiar with.

 

I think you know full well that my issue is not your speculation over which forum he is referring to but your speculation over him being a liar

 

You have made so many posts to reiterate this nonsense point of a trivial matter only to trip yourself up at the last hurdle.

 

See above..no I haven't and speculating that MA is a liar is not atrivial matter

 

You have undermined all of your posts now.You have said that i have undermined by credibility. Well i will give you some advice as well then. It may be an idea not to trip yourself up when making your arguments as other wise you will undermine your credibility as a poster.

 

See above,,no I haven't. Pwerfectly consisteant as I repeat my issues is nothing to do with it being OVFC or not OVFC..there is no specuklation on masy poart as if jhe does not read MBs thern OVFC is one of those that he does not read. You said you nknow that he reads OVF, you said that he may be lying and have produced nothing to back that up.

 

I make no claims that I need to back up

 

The only thing we know is that MA says that he does not read MBs (which would of course include OVF)..we know nothing more on this matter

 

You are the one indulging in spculation

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So I wasnt alone in thinking his posts came over somewhat patronising. Good post Chopper Harris. We're all Vale arent we?

 

We are indeed..and speculating with no evidence that MA is a liar doesn't for me in any way help the cause. Probably exactly the kind of info that gets passed to him and results in his attitude to MBs

 

I am sure not alone in feeling that way..is that a problem? CHoppers' last post was complete nonsense..everyone can see my point is not about OVF, nor spoeuclation about OVF it's about CH speculating that Adams is a liar with nothing to back up that claim and being unable to expalin why he thinks that

[JOHNNYAITCH]

CH said in first post

 

"i have a feeling that he does come on here and read what is posted even if he says he doesn't."

 

That is the speculation that I have issue with. No justification has been produced for this which I don't consider a trivial matter..accusing MA of being a liar isn't trivial. That's why I felt CH lost credibility in my eyes

 

It is not and never was about OVF it's about why speculate at all on this given the facts that we have...that MA says that he does not read OVF

 

I've nothing more to add