Stevenage (H) FAC2R Match thread 12th Dec

[MBE]

2 hours ago, ValeForever. said:

For me @CambridgeDon you can't look at our form over the full 12 month period & pin that on Crosby's record. He wasn't in charge & it wasn't his squad of players.

Again just offering an alternative view, but look at his record for the games he can be fully accountable for.

This season including all League & Cup games:

Total games played = 31.

This is a ridiculous amount of games for us to have played by the second week of December. Our relative success in the cups has definitely had an impact on our squad, not only in terms of injuries but also recovery time & the amount of time they've been able to actually work on things on the grass. Cup runs are great, but they do have a knock on effect especially at our level. You've got to have a big squad to cope & we simply don't have that as a league 1 side. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption to conclude that had we gone out at the 1st chance in all cups, we'd more than likely have a few more league points in the bag.

Wins = 11

Draws = 9 (Won 2 & lost 1 on pens)

Loses = 11

We've also had two very winnable home games cancelled due to internationals. Fleetwood who were dead on their feet at the time, & Orient.

Hear me out now. If you convert that form over Crosby's time in full charge, it leaves you with 62 points across a full 46 game season. Now some of you will correctly point out that 3 of those games have been against L2 opposition & you'd be right. Free scoring Crewe who are in the top 4 of L2, Mansfield away from home who were unbeaten in 20 games across a 4 month period, & then bottom of the league Sutton, who we beat. It also includes Newcastle under 21s as well (which I've counted as a draw on the stats)

We've only been beaten by more than a 1 x goal margin on 4 x occasions in 31 games. Barnsley opening day. Bristol Rovers away when we played an hour + with 10 men. Unbeaten Pompey away, where we feasibly could've & should have been out of site at half time. Bolton away in the trophy game last week.

I stick to my guns that this season is far from as bad as ppl would have you believe. If you'd have told me we'd be looking at mid table in the league & a QF in one of the 2 x major cup comps, I'd have snapped your hand off & so would most sensible Vale fans.

Could & should we be higher up the league? Yes absolutely, I think we're probably about 6 points shy of where we could & should be. Are we lacking up top? Yes we are, Crosby will know this, he isn't thick. He will be doing everything within his power to rectify that. Please give the bloke a break. I think he's the right guy at this current time & deserves more credit & time with the squad he has put together.

I agree we should only judge Crosby since he took the job which is why his time should be up.

We’ve had 31 games to judge Crosby. It’s not a ridiculous number of games. It’s just another stat Crosby has thrown out to justify his <ovf censored> selection and in game subs. Just like the nonsense spouted about performing above XG like Barnsley and 1st contact in the box. 

4 of those 31 games have been for BSM. We played a team of kids in every BSM game and the league cup we played largely squad players expect Mansfield, plus as you point out we have 3 had weekend breaks. You’d have thought Burton and Cheltenham were 2 very winnable matches but it doesn’t work like that.

It’s a red herring thrown out to cover up his deficiencies and a squad lacking balance.

To say we are in games is saying we are competitive. Yes we are unless the opposition score 1st. 
 

To extrapolate the form over the rest of the season is a bit daft. If you’d have done that at the end of August we would have been top. Do that over the last 15 league matches and we will be relegated.

We nearly broke the record for a goal drought and had one of the worst opening day defeats. Pretty damning.

Enough is enough. This squad should be performing comfortably mid table but the manager and his coaching team are not up to the task.

Edited December 13, 2023 by MBE
BDSM games😂😂

[Powerline]

1 hour ago, ValeForever. said:

For me @CambridgeDon you can't look at our form over the full 12 month period & pin that on Crosby's record. He wasn't in charge & it wasn't his squad of players.

Again just offering an alternative view, but look at his record for the games he can be fully accountable for.

This season including all League & Cup games:

Total games played = 31.

This is a ridiculous amount of games for us to have played by the second week of December. Our relative success in the cups has definitely had an impact on our squad, not only in terms of injuries but also recovery time & the amount of time they've been able to actually work on things on the grass. Cup runs are great, but they do have a knock on effect especially at our level. You've got to have a big squad to cope & we simply don't have that as a league 1 side. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption to conclude that had we gone out at the 1st chance in all cups, we'd more than likely have a few more league points in the bag.

Wins = 11

Draws = 9 (Won 2 & lost 1 on pens)

Loses = 11

We've also had two very winnable home games cancelled due to internationals. Fleetwood who were dead on their feet at the time, & Orient.

Hear me out now. If you convert that form over Crosby's time in full charge, it leaves you with 62 points across a full 46 game season. Now some of you will correctly point out that 3 of those games have been against L2 opposition & you'd be right. Free scoring Crewe who are in the top 4 of L2, Mansfield away from home who were unbeaten in 20 games across a 4 month period, & then bottom of the league Sutton, who we beat. It also includes Newcastle under 21s as well (which I've counted as a draw on the stats)

We've only been beaten by more than a 1 x goal margin on 4 x occasions in 31 games. Barnsley opening day. Bristol Rovers away when we played an hour + with 10 men. Unbeaten Pompey away, where we feasibly could've & should have been out of site at half time. Bolton away in the trophy game last week.

I stick to my guns that this season is far from as bad as ppl would have you believe. If you'd have told me we'd be looking at mid table in the league & a QF in one of the 2 x major cup comps, I'd have snapped your hand off & so would most sensible Vale fans.

Could & should we be higher up the league? Yes absolutely, I think we're probably about 6 points shy of where we could & should be. Are we lacking up top? Yes we are, Crosby will know this, he isn't thick. He will be doing everything within his power to rectify that. Please give the bloke a break. I think he's the right guy at this current time & deserves more credit & time with the squad he has put together.

The marginal 1-0 losses are not so marginal imo. Derby yes we lost 1-0, but we were abysmal. Offered absolutely nothing. Cheltenham lost by 1 goal, also atrocious. A loss is still a loss whether it’s 1-0 or 7-0.

[Brian Johnson]

1 hour ago, ValeForever. said:

For me @CambridgeDon you can't look at our form over the full 12 month period & pin that on Crosby's record. He wasn't in charge & it wasn't his squad of players.

Again just offering an alternative view, but look at his record for the games he can be fully accountable for.

This season including all League & Cup games:

Total games played = 31.

This is a ridiculous amount of games for us to have played by the second week of December. Our relative success in the cups has definitely had an impact on our squad, not only in terms of injuries but also recovery time & the amount of time they've been able to actually work on things on the grass. Cup runs are great, but they do have a knock on effect especially at our level. You've got to have a big squad to cope & we simply don't have that as a league 1 side. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption to conclude that had we gone out at the 1st chance in all cups, we'd more than likely have a few more league points in the bag.

Wins = 11

Draws = 9 (Won 2 & lost 1 on pens)

Loses = 11

We've also had two very winnable home games cancelled due to internationals. Fleetwood who were dead on their feet at the time, & Orient.

Hear me out now. If you convert that form over Crosby's time in full charge, it leaves you with 62 points across a full 46 game season. Now some of you will correctly point out that 3 of those games have been against L2 opposition & you'd be right. Free scoring Crewe who are in the top 4 of L2, Mansfield away from home who were unbeaten in 20 games across a 4 month period, & then bottom of the league Sutton, who we beat. It also includes Newcastle under 21s as well (which I've counted as a draw on the stats)

We've only been beaten by more than a 1 x goal margin on 4 x occasions in 31 games. Barnsley opening day. Bristol Rovers away when we played an hour + with 10 men. Unbeaten Pompey away, where we feasibly could've & should have been out of site at half time. Bolton away in the trophy game last week.

I stick to my guns that this season is far from as bad as ppl would have you believe. If you'd have told me we'd be looking at mid table in the league & a QF in one of the 2 x major cup comps, I'd have snapped your hand off & so would most sensible Vale fans.

Could & should we be higher up the league? Yes absolutely, I think we're probably about 6 points shy of where we could & should be. Are we lacking up top? Yes we are, Crosby will know this, he isn't thick. He will be doing everything within his power to rectify that. Please give the bloke a break. I think he's the right guy at this current time & deserves more credit & time with the squad he has put together.

Its the most boring football that I have had misfortune of watching for years.

Winnable games?  So were Burton, Cheltenham, Lincoln, Bristol Rovers & Cambridge

In the cup its been mainly lower league opposition and the moment we come up against some one half good, we lose.

Bristol Rovers dicked us  & were already 2-0 up before we had a player sent off. They  then sacked their manager a couple of weeks later.

Teams never have to get out of first gear to beat us. They just let us have loads of possession in non dangerous areas knowing that we will not hurt them.

You say that its not his team when the bad run started at the start of this year but he's been coaching them through all that time which makes him just as culpable.

Last night's game proved to everyone that he's got no idea what he's doing & is out of his depth due to his terrible in game management.

But the main thing is & this is the one that will eventually see him lose his job, is that he losing most of the support of the fans

 

[ValeForever.]

24 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

Its the most boring football that I have had misfortune of watching for years.

On the flip side of your opinion, some people would argue the opening 10 games of the season (Barnsley aside) was some of the best football they had seen from a Vale side for years.

We're a work in progress. If you think getting a new manager in is going to change the way we try to go about playing football, you clearly haven't listened to a single word coming from the club since the summer. It's here to stay.

My opinion is that he is nowhere near the sack at the moment, based on the season as a whole. These fans waiting for a statement after every game at the moment are going to be waiting for a short while. I genuinely cannot see us sacking him when he's had 1 x transfer window & half a season to go at it. If we were rock bottom, or had been rotting in the bottom 4 all season then I'd get it, but we haven't been.

It's a 5 out of 10 for me so far for Crosby. I'm not saying that's good enough or what we should be aspiring for, but I also don't think its sacking territory. I'll be surprised if he's not our manager come end of January transfer window. But time will tell.

[Brian Johnson]

10 minutes ago, ValeForever. said:

On the flip side of your opinion, some people would argue the opening 10 games of the season (Barnsley aside) was some of the best football they had seen from a Vale side for years.

We're a work in progress. If you think getting a new manager in is going to change the way we try to go about playing football, you clearly haven't listened to a single word coming from the club since the summer. It's here to stay.

My opinion is that he is nowhere near the sack at the moment, based on the season as a whole. These fans waiting for a statement after every game at the moment are going to be waiting for a short while. I genuinely cannot see us sacking him when he's had 1 x transfer window & half a season to go at it. If we were rock bottom, or had been rotting in the bottom 4 all season then I'd get it, but we haven't been.

It's a 5 out of 10 for me so far for Crosby. I'm not saying that's good enough or what we should be aspiring for, but I also don't think its sacking territory. I'll be surprised if he's not our manager come end of January transfer window. But time will tell.

Some would said that about the first ten games but the supporters are seeing through that now.

You say that it is clear that he is here to stay, like I said in my previous response to you, the Vale fans will decide that and they are already turning against him in their numbers.

No manager or club owner can sustain that

[ValeForever.]

25 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

Some would said that about the first ten games but the supporters are seeing through that now.

You say that it is clear that he is here to stay, like I said in my previous response to you, the Vale fans will decide that and they are already turning against him in their numbers.

No manager or club owner can sustain that

Not that this thread should be seen as any kind of indication of our overall fan base, but if you look at my original post, there's far more people in support of that view than those thinking it's total cuckoo.

There's been some booing. Some called for & some uncalled for, but I certainly don't believe he's a manager on the edge at the moment.

It's all about opinions & only time will tell. Hopefully we can get behind the manager & the team over the next few busy weeks.

Edited December 13, 2023 by ValeForever.

[Brian Johnson]

7 minutes ago, ValeForever. said:

Not that this thread should be seen as any kind of indication of our overall fan base, but if you look at my original post, there's far more people in support of that view than those thinking it's total cuckoo.

There's been some booing. Some called for & some uncalled for, but I certainly don't believe he's a manager on the edge at the moment.

It's all about opinions & only time will tell. Hopefully we can get behind the manager & the team over the next few busy weeks.

I'm not saying this thread us indicative of support for Crosby or not but you only have to see the general feel for Crosby on here, other social media platforms, P & G, when you have a conversation with other Vale fans.

The mood in the room is changing and changing in a big way

[MBE]

27 minutes ago, ValeForever. said:

Not that this thread should be seen as any kind of indication of our overall fan base, but if you look at my original post, there's far more people in support of that view than those thinking it's total cuckoo.

There's been some booing. Some called for & some uncalled for, but I certainly don't believe he's a manager on the edge at the moment.

It's all about opinions & only time will tell. Hopefully we can get behind the manager & the team over the next few busy weeks.

Are you referring to your  post to CambridgeDon?

Edited December 13, 2023 by MBE

[Family Stand Terrier]

2 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

Bristol Rovers dicked us  & were already 2-0 up before we had a player sent off. 

 

Agree with the rest of your post, but they were 1 up when Jesse got sent off.

[PVFC FAN]

2 hours ago, MBE said:

I agree we should only judge Crosby since he took the job which is why his time should be up.

We’ve had 31 games to judge Crosby. It’s not a ridiculous number of games. It’s just another stat Crosby has thrown out to justify his <ovf censored> selection and in game subs. Just like the nonsense spouted about performing above XG like Barnsley and 1st contact in the box. 

4 of those 31 games have been for BSM. We played a team of kids in every BSM game and the league cup we played largely squad players expect Mansfield, plus as you point out we have 3 had weekend breaks. You’d have thought Burton and Cheltenham were 2 very winnable matches but it doesn’t work like that.

It’s a red herring thrown out to cover up his deficiencies and a squad lacking balance.

To say we are in games is saying we are competitive. Yes we are unless the opposition score 1st. 
 

To extrapolate the form over the rest of the season is a bit daft. If you’d have done that at the end of August we would have been top. Do that over the last 15 league matches and we will be relegated.

We nearly broke the record for a goal drought and had one of the worst opening day defeats. Pretty damning.

Enough is enough. This squad should be performing comfortably mid table but the manager and his coaching team are not up to the task.

Yes we do have a squad that at first site you would say should be doing better. But like the other bloke said we don't have it up top, so how do you expect a squad lacking in such a key area to be doing any better than it is now? both uche and loft haven't been performing at 100%  (hopefully they will be very soon). Crosby has a average league 1 side with nothing up top. So what do you expect? 

 

I believe  that loft and uche may be able to get a few goals before January. When loft signed for Bristol rovers he was ridiculed for a bad touch etc. Eventually he established himself in the squad as a target man and scored some important goals. Uche is big, powerful, good on the ball and like loft he is a target man. I would expect him to get his first goal like loft very soon.

I think Crosby should have a chance. If we carry on like this though I'm afraid as optimistic as I am he will need to go.

[MBE]

16 minutes ago, PVFC FAN said:

Yes we do have a squad that at first site you would say should be doing better. But like the other bloke said we don't have it up top, so how do you expect a squad lacking in such a key area to be doing any better than it is now? both uche and loft haven't been performing at 100%  (hopefully they will be very soon). Crosby has a average league 1 side with nothing up top. So what do you expect? 

 

I believe  that loft and uche may be able to get a few goals before January. When loft signed for Bristol rovers he was ridiculed for a bad touch etc. Eventually he established himself in the squad as a target man and scored some important goals. Uche is big, powerful, good on the ball and like loft he is a target man. I would expect him to get his first goal like loft very soon.

I think Crosby should have a chance. If we carry on like this though I'm afraid as optimistic as I am he will need to go.

The strikers have not worked out so far but we aren’t exactly playing to help them either. Surely it’s up to the manager to pick a game plan to find an alternative way. That’s what he gets paid for. I’m more concerned about our defence. They have been pretty poor. You don’t need to score lots of goals if you can keep clean sheets to pick up points. 

If we stopped overplaying in wide areas before getting the ball in the box it would give either striker a chance to gamble on crosses. 

Get more players in the box. It’s rare we have more  than 2 players in the box . 

Play with a  variation if tempo rather than constant walking pace. Waiting for opposition to just get back in position in numbers is not a good tactic. How many times do we get to a wide area near the penalty area and we go back to the halfway line? 

If you were Carol how long would you give it before making the change?

 

[PVFC FAN]

1 minute ago, MBE said:

The strikers have not worked out so far but we aren’t exactly playing to help them either. Surely it’s up to the manager to pick a game plan to find an alternative way. That’s what he gets paid for. I’m more concerned about our defence. They have been pretty poor. You don’t need to score lots of goals if you can keep clean sheets to pick up points. 

If we stopped overplaying in wide areas before getting the ball in the box it would give either striker a chance to gamble on crosses. 

Get more players in the box. It’s rare we have more  than 2 players in the box . 

Play with a  variation if tempo rather than constant walking pace. Waiting for opposition to just get back in position in numbers is not a good tactic. How many times do we get to a wide area near the penalty area and we go back to the halfway line? 

If you were Carol how long would you give it before making the change?

 

Firstly

I'd give him until after January to see who he gets in because I think we could improve alot from some reliable defenders etc. If its a shocking transfer window and the bad form carries on we absolutely should get rid of him.

Secondly

Yes the defensive blunders have cost us some important points and could have cost us more if ripley wasn't in net.

Thirdly 

Yes I do agree that the build up takes to long and that it gives the opposition a chance to sit back and maybe relaxe for a couple of mins. Also all this sitting outside the box has put the possession stats up making us look more dominant than we are. Lots of teams do this and manage to get goals but it's very difficult. I think playing it to the target man and then laying of to a winger and then getting in the box would work better.

My conclusion

We need better defence and we need to do more on the ball and the target men need to start getting in the box and scoring. 

 

If Crosby rectifies some of these things I think we could very easily be competing for a play off spot. Call me mad but I honestly don't think iam.

I agree with the stuf you said I just think Crosby needs a bit longer.

[Powerline]

7 minutes ago, PVFC FAN said:

Firstly

I'd give him until after January to see who he gets in because I think we could improve alot from some reliable defenders etc. If its a shocking transfer window and the bad form carries on we absolutely should get rid of him.

Secondly

Yes the defensive blunders have cost us some important points and could have cost us more if ripley wasn't in net.

Thirdly 

Yes I do agree that the build up takes to long and that it gives the opposition a chance to sit back and maybe relaxe for a couple of mins. Also all this sitting outside the box has put the possession stats up making us look more dominant than we are. Lots of teams do this and manage to get goals but it's very difficult. I think playing it to the target man and then laying of to a winger and then getting in the box would work better.

My conclusion

We need better defence and we need to do more on the ball and the target men need to start getting in the box and scoring. 

 

If Crosby rectifies some of these things I think we could very easily be competing for a play off spot. Call me mad but I honestly don't think iam.

I agree with the stuf you said I just think Crosby needs a bit longer.

If we give Crosby longer we’ll have an exact repeat of the Askey scenario when we wasted the entire January window.

He’s had enough of a chance. 

[osprey]

9 minutes ago, PVFC FAN said:

Firstly

I'd give him until after January to see who he gets in because I think we could improve alot from some reliable defenders etc. If its a shocking transfer window and the bad form carries on we absolutely should get rid of him.

Secondly

Yes the defensive blunders have cost us some important points and could have cost us more if ripley wasn't in net.

Thirdly 

Yes I do agree that the build up takes to long and that it gives the opposition a chance to sit back and maybe relaxe for a couple of mins. Also all this sitting outside the box has put the possession stats up making us look more dominant than we are. Lots of teams do this and manage to get goals but it's very difficult. I think playing it to the target man and then laying of to a winger and then getting in the box would work better.

My conclusion

We need better defence and we need to do more on the ball and the target men need to start getting in the box and scoring. 

 

If Crosby rectifies some of these things I think we could very easily be competing for a play off spot. Call me mad but I honestly don't think iam.

I agree with the stuf you said I just think Crosby needs a bit longer.

So what you are saying is that defence needs improvement and attack needs improvement- pretty much the basics of the game 😬

[Port Vale Paul]

4 hours ago, ValeForever. said:

For me @CambridgeDon you can't look at our form over the full 12 month period & pin that on Crosby's record. He wasn't in charge & it wasn't his squad of players.

Again just offering an alternative view, but look at his record for the games he can be fully accountable for.

This season including all League & Cup games:

Total games played = 31.

This is a ridiculous amount of games for us to have played by the second week of December. Our relative success in the cups has definitely had an impact on our squad, not only in terms of injuries but also recovery time & the amount of time they've been able to actually work on things on the grass. Cup runs are great, but they do have a knock on effect especially at our level. You've got to have a big squad to cope & we simply don't have that as a league 1 side. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption to conclude that had we gone out at the 1st chance in all cups, we'd more than likely have a few more league points in the bag.

Wins = 11

Draws = 9 (Won 2 & lost 1 on pens)

Loses = 11

We've also had two very winnable home games cancelled due to internationals. Fleetwood who were dead on their feet at the time, & Orient.

Hear me out now. If you convert that form over Crosby's time in full charge, it leaves you with 62 points across a full 46 game season. Now some of you will correctly point out that 3 of those games have been against L2 opposition & you'd be right. Free scoring Crewe who are in the top 4 of L2, Mansfield away from home who were unbeaten in 20 games across a 4 month period, & then bottom of the league Sutton, who we beat. It also includes Newcastle under 21s as well (which I've counted as a draw on the stats)

We've only been beaten by more than a 1 x goal margin on 4 x occasions in 31 games. Barnsley opening day. Bristol Rovers away when we played an hour + with 10 men. Unbeaten Pompey away, where we feasibly could've & should have been out of site at half time. Bolton away in the trophy game last week.

I stick to my guns that this season is far from as bad as ppl would have you believe. If you'd have told me we'd be looking at mid table in the league & a QF in one of the 2 x major cup comps, I'd have snapped your hand off & so would most sensible Vale fans.

Could & should we be higher up the league? Yes absolutely, I think we're probably about 6 points shy of where we could & should be. Are we lacking up top? Yes we are, Crosby will know this, he isn't thick. He will be doing everything within his power to rectify that. Please give the bloke a break. I think he's the right guy at this current time & deserves more credit & time with the squad he has put together.

I don't know why you are defending the un defendable, when you say you would have taken mid table and a qf in league cup. Will you change your mind at 5pm on the 23rd Dec when we could be out of the cup, and pending other results be in the bottom 4 on current form.1 in 13.