Brexit again...

[Paul6754]

For some time now the EU has, in my opinion, ignored the elephant in the room - or should that be elephants?

 

China's economic and social expansionism is there for all to see, but the likes of the EU seem powerless to halt or challenge Beijing.

 

Trump's US of A closes its borders and says it will only interact with those who show them respect or are gratuitously considered their friends. Of course this could change with a new Administration. Either way the likes of the EU do not, again my opinion, have the where with all to challenge Washington.

 

Russia does what Russia pleases with sanctions applied by the USA or UN being of no consequence to the Kremlin.

 

Right now London and Brussels need each other but, and it pains me to say this, the EU will remain a small fish in a big global pond.

 

AR, IMHO it's more to do with the EU doesn't have any political leaders with the balls to take on the Chinese and no one wishes to spark a trade war hence nothing happens.

 

Trump/USA has imposed sanctions on China and China has retaliated we await with trepidation what the next moves will be but someone has to take on the Chinese hence I suppose one reason why there were talks of a USA/EU co-operation treaty to combat the Chinese and Indians as the USA cannot do everything on it's own.

 

Many USA companies who've out sourced work to China/India have started to bring it back, especially some of the high tech stuff citing poor quality and not meeting deadlines as reasons, hard to manage when the work is being done 8000 miles away.

 

I think the USA/EU will have the technological edge for many decades to come because the people are generally more creative, form successful organizations and collaborations (Another reason why the UK should stay in the EU). Also Americans are apt to take more risk taking and turning inventions into products that people want to buy whereas Europeans are more averse to risk and the Chinese/Indian cultures generally get in their way, it's called capitalism.

 

One area which is important is protecting intellectual property. It has been very difficult for western companies to stop China, India and Brazil from ripping off their products/inventions. Preventing Chinese and Indian companies from selling goods that contravene patent/trademarks/copyright law around the world is nigh on impossible but times are changing.

 

I am not a Trump supporter but I agree with some of the issues he's trying to tackle within reason.

[Howjy04]

He always knows what he's doing..... like standing next to terrorists graves.

His crack team are so decisive... like what to do about another referendum... either EU or Scotland.

 

Deportation is too good.

[Howjy04]

A reminder to everyone.If you have an emergency,don’t go to the police or phone 999.Find an ice cream van and ask for a 99.Miss Dianne,you really need to get help.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Unfortunately it was 'good old Mags' that put paid to a good chunk of our manufacturing industry by saying 'leave it to the market' and guess what? Markets don't have a social conscience and the firms went to the wall. Contrast this with the attitude taken by (West) Germany and why do you think they outsell us in export markets now?

 

It's nothing to do with EU membership, it's having faith in your own country and doing right by your own people. The Tories have never known this and never will as long as they keep peddling ultra-monetarist claptrap.

 

100% correct. It's one of the reasons the Tory party aren't ever going to be good for the country even running it on a supposedly capitalist basis, they care nothing for the nation only themselves as individuals.

[Paul6754]

Restrictions probably the wrong description.Lack of help is probably a better one.Allowing cheap crap to flood the market from Asia forced large firms to move abroad to compete.Spode and Wedgwood to mention a couple.Massive job loses in the area.China pottery became too expensive,so tableware took over.Too many companies were producing it,although it was still better quality than from Asia etc.Steelite ,at one time,were selling dinner services for a fiver.Steelite stuck it out and have done very well since.Dear EU,can we please sell our plates to other countries other than in the EU?Yes ok,if you must.Next!!

 

Steelite is sold all over the world Howjy, not just in the EU.

 

https://us.steelite.com/about-us

[Howjy04]

Steelite is sold all over the world Howjy, not just in the EU.

 

https://us.steelite.com/about-us

 

Yes I know Paul,with permission.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Restrictions probably the wrong description.Lack of help is probably a better one.Allowing cheap crap to flood the market from Asia forced large firms to move abroad to compete.Spode and Wedgwood to mention a couple.Massive job loses in the area.China pottery became too expensive,so tableware took over.Too many companies were producing it,although it was still better quality than from Asia etc.Steelite ,at one time,were selling dinner services for a fiver.Steelite stuck it out and have done very well since.Dear EU,can we please sell our plates to other countries other than in the EU?Yes ok,if you must.Next!!

 

 

'Allowing cheap crap to flood the market' is exactly what the Brexit mob are advocating, free trade with the entire planet! The EU have actually protected the pottery industry through import tariffs and rules on backstamping, although some firms have got around this by doing some minimal processes then stamping it 'Made in England' or wherever.

How on earth you can be a fan of the traitorous evil witch Thatcher who did more than anyone to kill British industry and did it in an utterly brutal manner is beyond me considering your family were manufacturers. One of the first things Thatcher did when she came to power in 79 was to remove all restrictions on capital flow which meant billions left the country for investment in foreign producers instead of being channeled into UK companies. Coupled with soaring interest rates due to her monetarist policies our manufacturers were starved of capital investment and became less and less efficient, therefore their goods became more and more expensive, of poorer design and quality and with no trade protection could not compete and withered away.

As the first industrialised nation Britain wiped out its competition because it could out produce competitors and offer better designed, higher quality goods at cheaper prices. Free trade suited us then - or the factory owners and land owners at least - and it crippled producers in other countries. In Bielefeld in Germany there's a very interesting museum, it's an old factory and all the factory entrances are named after northern mill towns in England such as Bury, Rochdale, Burnley, etc. In the entrance is the prize exhibit, an early 19th century steam engine made in Manchester. Why is this? Because Bielefeld was a centre of flax cloth production operating on traditional lines, the industrial revolution in Britain wiped them out by supplying the market with cheap industrially produced goods - free trade. So, the citizens of Bielefeld clubbed together and bought a steam engine to kick start their own industrial revolution which revived their flax industry and they never looked back. Heard of Dr. Otker or Alpecin shampoo? They're both Bielefeld companies employing thousands in manufacturing in Bielefeld today.

Investment and government policy are key and it's these reasons why Thatcher was a traitor to her own country.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Yes I know Paul,with permission.

 

Permission from who?

[Thevalefan]

Restrictions probably the wrong description.Lack of help is probably a better one.Allowing cheap crap to flood the market from Asia forced large firms to move abroad to compete.Spode and Wedgwood to mention a couple.Massive job loses in the area.China pottery became too expensive,so tableware took over.Too many companies were producing it,although it was still better quality than from Asia etc.Steelite ,at one time,were selling dinner services for a fiver.Steelite stuck it out and have done very well since.Dear EU,can we please sell our plates to other countries other than in the EU?Yes ok,if you must.Next!!

 

That's just a rant rather than an answer to anything. Everything your talking about there is a direct domestic government issue. Did the EU restrict us from doing anything about it? No they didn't.

Most industries have suffered from low cost economies like China. Almost all developed countries have suffered from this to one extent or another. How can we compete against countries who allow sweatshops and $1 a day wages. One of the only positive things of social media in my eyes is that companies are forced to be more ethical because they can be easily exposed these days. When China fully matures, who will be the low cost economies doing their dirty work for them instead of manufacturing everything domestically like they do now?

 

Steelite was just an example. Dudson, Churchill et al all sell around the world where there is enough demand for the product. Nothing stopping them from doing it besides some paperwork.... we're about to cut our noses off to the second largest economy in the world with not one decent reason why to do it.

 

If you knew the cost of an airfreight..or even a box of 24 mugs via next day DHL, you'd be amazed. You'd also be amazed how many times a company like Steelite sends on a weekly basis. It makes sense to sell on your doorstep for most manufacturers as transport is a non-value adding activity and eats profit. I can tell you for a fact that the US & EU is where the money, not these dream-lands Brexit voters think are desperate to have anything made on Britain. There is nothing stopping demand increasing from non-eu countries, Steelite have subsidiaries in the parts of the world (EU and Non EU) where they do most business in. Nothing has stopped them doing this.

 

Or... Shall we blame the older generations to myself for buying cheap imported tat over British made goods?

[Hagrid]

The answer is quite simple TVF, the UK should be staying in Europe and forming an alliance with Hungary, Poland and Italy to form a migration policy to stop the Islamization and Africanisation of Europe.

 

If this Brexit fiasco end up with a Labor government, Corbyn has said "He will transform the country", he will transform it but not in the way the Brexiteers voted for.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45646690

 

I have much empathy for the immigrants but the solution to the massive movement of people from the Middle East and Africa to the western world is not to ultimately make the endogenous people of Europe and the USA a minority in their own countries, this is utter madness.

 

Some horrendously right-wing views there mate.

 

Care to expand on what exactly you mean by 'Islamization' and 'Africanization'? They seem to be terms you haven't really explained, just lobbed into the argument with little/no clarification.

 

Also, when referring to the 'endogenous people of Europe becoming a minority', what do you mean? How far along this process do you think we are?

 

Genuinely interested, as I honestly thought these sort of views were left with Oswald Mosley in the 1930s.

[Paul6754]

Some horrendously right-wing views there mate.

 

Care to expand on what exactly you mean by 'Islamization' and 'Africanization'? They seem to be terms you haven't really explained, just lobbed into the argument with little/no clarification.

 

Also, when referring to the 'endogenous people of Europe becoming a minority', what do you mean? How far along this process do you think we are?

 

Genuinely interested, as I honestly thought these sort of views were left with Oswald Mosley in the 1930s.

 

It is predicted that if the current rate of immigration into Europe and the USA continues coupled with the higher birth rate of immigrants/lower birth rates of Europeans the native people in the UK and the Europeans who founded America and who made up approx 90% of the population in the 60's will be a minority in their own countries, the UK sometime around 2065, the USA sometime in the 2040's.

 

Eg, the Muslim population in the UK has roughly doubled every 10 years since 1961 to a level of around 2.7 million in 2011, approx 4.8% of the population. I don't expect this doubling to continue but anticipate there will be a very sizeable population of people who follow the Islamic faith living in the UK by 2065.

 

I don't accept these are "Horrendously right-wing views". These are numbers, some real and some predictions, the UK has to/should be aware of it's actual population and future predicted change to help manage and plan.

 

The terms Islamization and Africanization are self explanatory, many people coming into the UK follow the Islamic faith and/or come from Africa. Macron himself recently used the term EurAfrica as a future "Term to describe the EU.

 

I personally consider controlled immigration into the UK and USA is beneficial, I'm an immigrant into the USA. The recent mass movement of people mainly to the western world is one of the most important issues of out time. It needs a solution, a world wide solution in which every country takes part including China, japan, Russia, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries etc not just Europe and the English speaking world.

[Thevalefan]

I've also read today we will have the lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries post Brexit..... Who would have thought that eh!? Let's hope post Brexit trade can replicate what we enjoy now because any dips in companies profits will mean MORE austerity and higher taxes for us!

[Howjy04]

I've also read today we will have the lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries post Brexit..... Who would have thought that eh!? Let's hope post Brexit trade can replicate what we enjoy now because any dips in companies profits will mean MORE austerity and higher taxes for us!

 

Yes Tvf,a Labour government ()will have to rethink their plan to give workers £500 out of company profits.Labour are going for no deal aren’t they? or is it something else today?One thing guaranteed is Labour would increase corporation tax.

[Howjy04]

That's just a rant rather than an answer to anything. Everything your talking about there is a direct domestic government issue. Did the EU restrict us from doing anything about it? No they didn't.

Most industries have suffered from low cost economies like China. Almost all developed countries have suffered from this to one extent or another. How can we compete against countries who allow sweatshops and $1 a day wages. One of the only positive things of social media in my eyes is that companies are forced to be more ethical because they can be easily exposed these days. When China fully matures, who will be the low cost economies doing their dirty work for them instead of manufacturing everything domestically like they do now?

 

Steelite was just an example. Dudson, Churchill et al all sell around the world where there is enough demand for the product. Nothing stopping them from doing it besides some paperwork.... we're about to cut our noses off to the second largest economy in the world with not one decent reason why to do it.

 

If you knew the cost of an airfreight..or even a box of 24 mugs via next day DHL, you'd be amazed. You'd also be amazed how many times a company like Steelite sends on a weekly basis. It makes sense to sell on your doorstep for most manufacturers as transport is a non-value adding activity and eats profit. I can tell you for a fact that the US & EU is where the money, not these dream-lands Brexit voters think are desperate to have anything made on Britain. There is nothing stopping demand increasing from non-eu countries, Steelite have subsidiaries in the parts of the world (EU and Non EU) where they do most business in. Nothing has stopped them doing this.

 

Or... Shall we blame the older generations to myself for buying cheap imported tat over British made goods?

I shall enjoy a brew this morning from my Bone China Royal Doulton Carlyle pattern cup.The taste,I think you’ll find, is a lot better ,from said cup,than that from a young person’s preferred vessel.

[Howjy04]

I noticed,with the exception of Hugh Jackman,that the cast of ‘The Greatest Showman’ were at the Labour Party Conference,this week.