Myth

[Valiant in Brum]

The probem it has is that as a council facility the entry costs are massively subsidised. Without this the costs would need to double, this would lead to admissions similar to waterworld and yet it wouldnt offer a quarter of the attractions.

 

Sometime ago it was looked at to close the pool part down & turn it into a dance studio, but again the costs (cica £1m) to decomission the pool alone proved a major obstacle.

 

Dont get me wrong the swimming lessons etc bring in a lot of money, but pools on their own as a rule do not make money and are a drain on leisure centres, who have to use other areas such as outdoor pitches to offset the losses of the pool as much as possible.

 

I know it would cost money, but maybe it could be altered to another use. The (cica 1m) is a problem, surely there are other uses vale could make of it.

[brookersleftboot]

I didn't realise that!

 

I worked for the leisure section for a very long time & my wife is the ex manager of the facility, i can say now that financially it should be a no no to the vale.

 

They should ask themselves this question....

 

If its such a great idea, why has no other football club incl the rich premier league teams done it??

 

Now if we were talking about a facility that does not have the financial drain of a pool with it, then there could be some limited mileage in it.

 

However to close the pool is not as simple as just draining the water (as many people think) from a legal point of view, chemical residue has to be removed, pipes sealed up and plant room equipment such as pumps etc secured.

 

When the council were looking to close the pool i did some research and was quoted between £600k-1m to complete this work, hence why eventually the council (who already knew this) came to the conclusion it would cost money not save money if they closed it (there were other reasons as well obviously).

[brookersleftboot]

I didn't realise that!

 

I worked for the leisure section for a very long time & my wife is the ex manager of the facility, i can say now that financially it should be a no no to the vale.

 

They should ask themselves this question....

 

If its such a great idea, why has no other football club incl the rich premier league teams done it??

 

Now if we were talking about a facility that does not have the financial drain of a pool with it, then there could be some limited mileage in it.

 

However to close the pool is not as simple as just draining the water (as many people think) from a legal point of view, chemical residue has to be removed, pipes sealed up and plant room equipment such as pumps etc secured.

 

When the council were looking to close the pool i did some research and was quoted between £600k-1m to complete this work, hence why eventually the council (who already knew this) came to the conclusion it would cost money not save money if they closed it (there were other reasons as well obviously).

[brookersleftboot]

no idea why its posted twice!! sorry

[Fosse69]

Do not swimming pools attract subsidies when for school and community use, i.e. as a life saver for children and exercise for people who otherwise would not? Instead of going to the council would the owners of Dimensions have them instead?

[brookersleftboot]

Do not swimming pools attract subsidies when for school and community use, i.e. as a life saver for children and exercise for people who otherwise would not? Instead of going to the council would the owners of Dimensions have them instead?

 

Unfortunately no. In order to reduce the "business rates" moving to being a charitable trust would help but no just because you are giving children access or community use doesnt mean a great deal.

 

There are funding streams that could be investigated however many of these will dry up over the next 12mths as they are all linked to Olympic legacy.

 

The government really do very little to help grass roots leisure and this is why the industry is feeling the pinch massively, as it has to look to its budget to make savings.

 

There are a number of facilities that have moved from being under council control, one is belper leisure centre, it has attempted to run itself as a private centre and is struggling.

 

Some councils have tendered their leisure provision out to companies such as DC Leisure, Parkwood leisure and such like. These are options the council has looked at with regards to its collection of leisure facilities but councillors have always said no.

 

Taking it back to the Vale, i honestly think this is a no go, unless BSI are prepared to prop it up themselves. Vale face a tough enough task in clearing debt & being as self efficient as possible, the addition of a leisure centre would imho cripple the club long term.

[Sandyford_Lion]

A very poigniant opening post. Sadly the unforeseen problem of fans who decided to 'pledge' or simply walk away is that football is a habit and it is now nearly 6 months since many last attended Vale Park and some have either lost 'their appetite' for the game or lost a little interest. These people will need a little more encouragement before they are coaxed back.

Personally I shall return for the Morecombe game but it will be a case of attending when I want too.

 

Agree fully with you Mike.

 

What i would add is that as easy as it is to lose your appetite , it would only take one or two good performances on the pitch to rediscover your love for the team on the pitch.

I have seen two games so far and i feel everyone is justified in returning after all the work key people have done for 12 mths.

I believe it has been a resounding success. Have purchased two season tickets and we cant wait for Friday

 

Wish it was as ' easy ' on the pitch to make such resounding changes and bring success but keeping away will neither help or hinder M.A.

Hope there is finance available and i hope M.A. realises he needs to spend and strenghten the team. This season could turn into the opposite of last. A cracking second half !!

 

Completely personal choice here but for me the team deserves all the support we can give them. We have all said our love is for Port Vale

[soothsayer]

Its a bit like saying unless your an hermaphrodite your not human.

 

Not returning is also akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[rudgie]

As far as I am concerned I respect the right of fans to decide that they don't wish to return to Vale Park, because they aren't satisfied with recent developments. However we don't need continueing conspiracy theories on Onevalefan about the "real" motives behind the investment etc. I for one want to give the new investors/board members time to make the promised changes. If they don't deliver then I am certain that the massed raks of SEO will make sure we all know about it. In the meantime lets get behind Micky Adams and the team in getting us promotion, which I think we will achieve this season.

[Fosse69]

Unfortunately no. In order to reduce the "business rates" moving to being a charitable trust would help but no just because you are giving children access or community use doesnt mean a great deal.

 

There are funding streams that could be investigated however many of these will dry up over the next 12mths as they are all linked to Olympic legacy.

 

The government really do very little to help grass roots leisure and this is why the industry is feeling the pinch massively, as it has to look to its budget to make savings.

 

There are a number of facilities that have moved from being under council control, one is belper leisure centre, it has attempted to run itself as a private centre and is struggling.

 

Some councils have tendered their leisure provision out to companies such as DC Leisure, Parkwood leisure and such like. These are options the council has looked at with regards to its collection of leisure facilities but councillors have always said no.

 

Taking it back to the Vale, i honestly think this is a no go, unless BSI are prepared to prop it up themselves. Vale face a tough enough task in clearing debt & being as self efficient as possible, the addition of a leisure centre would imho cripple the club long term.

 

We must trust that the board/BSI know what they are doing. I can see the attraction of a show complex, theraputic pool for the players,etc, but as you say there are long term dangers

[melv]

We must trust that the board/BSI know what they are doing. I can see the attraction of a show complex, theraputic pool for the players,etc, but as you say there are long term dangers

 

Agree I think we are now at a stage where we need to give the board some trust.Now need to go OTT with that trust.Still need to keep an eye open.Let's see what they can produce from what they have said.However if it goes belly up then i can see protests starting up again probably on a bigger scale.

[Guppy 4 England]

Well we could spend £2m on the team today on players that could end up injured or just leave on a free after we get promotion, leaving us with a weakened side and no other additional funds with which to replace them resulting in later relegation and future financial trouble...

 

...or we could invest the £2m into facilities that would bring in an additional turnover into the club of £1m/year, meaning an additional £10m generated over a 10 year period and a sound basis for future purchase of players, even if we lose some to injury or they go on a free!

 

Don't talk such boll ocks, where is the additional profit coming from? The Rw suite will cost us more than it will make us. Your selling the same product to the same fan base they don't buy the valiant suite now why would they use the rw suite? Also I suppose you forgot about additional staffing costs , insurance, stewarding , cleaning , policing costs etc? 1m a year lol

[mickyferns]

Can we put the myth, that deciding not to return to vale park [yet] equates to not giving "them" a chance, to the sword once and for all?

Its a bit like saying unless your an hermaphrodite your not human.

Lets open the gate a little wider....

1] What difference does it make to "their promises" whether the stay away fans return or not?

2] What difference will the fans staying away have on the completion of the RW suite?

3] What difference will the fans returning have on the CW site?

4] How about the training facilities at bycars and in the ground?

5] Will stay away or returning fans have any impact on the completion of the stand?

6] How will fans affect dimensions [if it goes ahead]?

All their promises have been off field statements.. apart from suggestions that there "may" be a little for the team.

 

In my opinion...

1] None at all

2] None at all. I just hope they are not relying solely on fans for the ventures success.

3] None at all

4] As above, none at all, its unlikely fans will have the use of them.

5] Not at all, 75% of the stadium is empty/unused when we have an average gate.

6] Not at all, the public will have an impact but fans not attending games wont.

 

So... if you have made the decision to return.. good for you... its your choice... if you have made the decision not to return yet... good for you... its your choice

I hope the fans that are still moanin stay away for good, we dont need parasites like u at the vale. I signed SEO and now am gettin a season ticket cus we achieved what wr set out to do so whats the problem? Some people just love to moan and cause a fuss cus their bitter about their pathetic little lives and it makes them feel important.

[mickyferns]

Don't talk such boll ocks, where is the additional profit coming from? The Rw suite will cost us more than it will make us. Your selling the same product to the same fan base they don't buy the valiant suite now why would they use the rw suite? Also I suppose you forgot about additional staffing costs , insurance, stewarding , cleaning , policing costs etc? 1m a year lol

Your talkin absoulute ***** pal, it will be an extra source of income u bell end.

[Pete T]

We have the potential, within 18 months, to be in League 1 and be profitable.

 

If we get there, then it shows that the new board are achieving their goals.

 

If we don't, it doesn't mean failure. 18 months is just a good time scale to see improvements. In theory, by the end of the 2012/2013 season, we could have the stadium and training facilities complete, and the debt reduced. Combine that with a team who are in the league above and that would be success in my eyes.

 

Nice post. You need get on here more often.