Tower block fire. Why did it happen?

[RailwayRowdy]

As we find out eventually, there are loads of mal practices that are continued just because nothing had gone wrong previously. But that doesn't mean that as we speak there aren't other ticking bombs out there. Look at the Herald Of Free Enterprise disaster in the 80's. They left the cargo doors open to clear the smoke as the ship set sail. It was seen as safe because nothing had gone wrong before. Other similar mal practices are happening now as we discuss this thread. But nothing will come to light until disaster strikes. People reading this of a certain age will remember the 1966 Aberfan disaster when warnings of the slag heap and the stream under it was constantly brought to the attention of the British Coal Board. What happened ? NOTHING. About 5 yrs ago I went to Aberfan. As a 53yr old man I cried my heart out. My heart goes out to all these poor souls who are living a nightmare. LECTURE OVER.

 

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[Fosse69]

As we find out eventually, there are loads of mal practices that are continued just because nothing had gone wrong previously. But that doesn't mean that as we speak there aren't other ticking bombs out there. Look at the Herald Of Free Enterprise disaster in the 80's. They left the cargo doors open to clear the smoke as the ship set sail. It was seen as safe because nothing had gone wrong before. Other similar mal practices are happening now as we discuss this thread. But nothing will come to light until disaster strikes. People reading this of a certain age will remember the 1966 Aberfan disaster when warnings of the slag heap and the stream under it was constantly brought to the attention of the British Coal Board. What happened ? NOTHING. About 5 yrs ago I went to Aberfan. As a 53yr old man I cried my heart out. My heart goes out to all these poor souls who are living a nightmare. LECTURE OVER.

 

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Very true, nobody listens. Complaints are made about red tape and H&S, but they are there for a reason, how many EU safeguards will be ditched?

[Conrad]

That is shocking! Someone should hang for this.

 

There will be a few people with sweaty arses.

[For Us All]

There will be a few people with sweaty arses.

 

Yes,it's certainly CYA time.

[Bea Smith]

Very true, nobody listens. Complaints are made about red tape and H&S, but they are there for a reason, how many EU safeguards will be ditched?

 

Because scum of the lowest kind think it is clever to complain about 'the nanny state' and don't want what they think is their money spent on safety measures.

[geosname]

Because scum of the lowest kind think it is clever to complain about 'the nanny state' and don't want what they think is their money spent on safety measures.

 

The "nanny state" is a subjective test.

I doubt there is a council who doesnt want to comply with the building regs at the lowest possible cost, which in my opinion is the wrong test for buildings of multiple occupancy

[geosname]

As we find out eventually, there are loads of mal practices that are continued just because nothing had gone wrong previously. But that doesn't mean that as we speak there aren't other ticking bombs out there. Look at the Herald Of Free Enterprise disaster in the 80's. They left the cargo doors open to clear the smoke as the ship set sail. It was seen as safe because nothing had gone wrong before. Other similar mal practices are happening now as we discuss this thread. But nothing will come to light until disaster strikes. People reading this of a certain age will remember the 1966 Aberfan disaster when warnings of the slag heap and the stream under it was constantly brought to the attention of the British Coal Board. What happened ? NOTHING. About 5 yrs ago I went to Aberfan. As a 53yr old man I cried my heart out. My heart goes out to all these poor souls who are living a nightmare. LECTURE OVER.

 

Sent from my GT-I9195I using the onevalefan mobile app

 

Nobody looks at the worst case scenario... just the cost implications

 

I remember aberfan... shockingly bad day

[Bea Smith]

Nobody looks at the worst case scenario... just the cost implications

 

I remember aberfan... shockingly bad day

 

 

 

However bad it gets, there is always some piece of devious manipulating false crocodile tears person (and I use that word very loosely here) that will say 'Lets hope some good can come out of it' to deflect from hunting down those to blame. Very clever tactic.

 

It's a wonder we didn't get that after the terrorist attacks.

[Aussie Rules]

However bad it gets, there is always some piece of devious manipulating false crocodile tears person (and I use that word very loosely here) that will say 'Lets hope some good can come out of it' to deflect from hunting down those to blame. Very clever tactic.

 

It's a wonder we didn't get that after the terrorist attacks.

 

So many times Bon'Ami we read and hear such sentiment followed by commissioned enquiries that seem to take an eternity to complete with volumes of recommendations destined to gather dust - and money seems to be freely available to complete them.

[Bea Smith]

The "nanny state" is a subjective test.

I doubt there is a council who doesnt want to comply with the building regs at the lowest possible cost, which in my opinion is the wrong test for buildings of multiple occupancy

 

What puzzles me, and this is not a personal attack, is why so many are willing to believe that evil, profiteering, corrupt officials do not exist and make endless excuses for them.

 

Philip Hammond, yes that one, the Tory minister, confirmed today that the cladding was illegal - so what you posted is not only totally wrong but makes me wonder why on earth you would believe it, or was it just posted to try and change perceptions of one of the worst Conservative councils in the whole of the UK ?

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615012/Chancellor-claims-Grenfell-cladding-illegal.html

 

 

Note the DAILY MAIL link !!!!

[geosname]

The "nanny state" is a subjective test.

I doubt there is a council who doesnt want to comply with the building regs at the lowest possible cost, which in my opinion is the wrong test for buildings of multiple occupancy

 

What puzzles me, and this is not a personal attack, is why so many are willing to believe that evil, profiteering, corrupt officials do not exist and make endless excuses for them.

 

Philip Hammond, yes that one, the Tory minister, confirmed today that the cladding was illegal - so what you posted is not only totally wrong but makes me wonder why on earth you would believe it, or was it just posted to try and change perceptions of one of the worst Conservative councils in the whole of the UK ?

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615012/Chancellor-claims-Grenfell-cladding-illegal.html

 

 

Note the DAILY MAIL link !!!!

 

Your interpretation of what I said is wrong.

The Council, as a collective, not individual Councillors, want to comply with regs at the lowest cost... whether that happens is a different question... but that is their [council as a whole] mandate.

I dont doubt individuals have other agenda... financial/political/personal gain... and I dont doubt that is the case in many councils, whatever their political leanings.

I am neither trying to change perception or defending.

Simply stating my opinion that building regs and cost are not the only criteria that should be applied where human life is concerned... the worst possible scenario should also be considered [whatever the financial cost]... and where regs change they should be applied to all not just new [buildings]... again whatever the cost.

If, as you state, the cladding was illegal then heads should roll all the way to the exercise yard in whatever prison is the toughest, whoever they are...

 

I cant read the "Daily Mail" link, access is often restricted here

[geosname]

I will say that I was a council officer for a short while and I know that some councilors are genuine people trying to do the best they can for the people of the area, whilst others are both devious and dubious in deed and nature.

 

[council officer by job title/description]

[Bea Smith]

Your interpretation of what I said is wrong.

The Council, as a collective, not individual Councillors, want to comply with regs at the lowest cost... whether that happens is a different question... but that is their [council as a whole] mandate.

I dont doubt individuals have other agenda... financial/political/personal gain... and I dont doubt that is the case in many councils, whatever their political leanings.

I am neither trying to change perception or defending.

Simply stating my opinion that building regs and cost are not the only criteria that should be applied where human life is concerned... the worst possible scenario should also be considered [whatever the financial cost]... and where regs change they should be applied to all not just new [buildings]... again whatever the cost.

If, as you state, the cladding was illegal then heads should roll all the way to the exercise yard in whatever prison is the toughest, whoever they are...

I cant read the "Daily Mail" link, access is often restricted here

 

I don't agree with your analysis of that council, who have been infamous over the years for being elitist.

The individuals are corrupt, it is being exposed daily, and had/have no interest in getting the best deal or such nonsense, they got a deal that suited their own corrupt pockets and used illegal materials - all revealed now.

Nor is it right to say 'now is not the time to discuss individual councils - wehatever their political leanings' - now is EXACTLY the time, name and shame - forget other councils, these Conservative councillors must be brought to account and jailed if found guilty.

If you cant see that this is what the people there want, you are misreading the situation - it is May's conservative government and specifically this Tory council that need to be, and are going to be talked about NOW.

Not some wishy washy 'oh all councils' and nonsense about 'lets hope good comes out of this' - that is just absolute bull and the victims will not take it.

 

 

It was Tory minister Philip Hammond that stated it, not me, if you wish I can send another link, I didn't realise the Daily Mail was such a subversive influence that thye restrict it there.

There are a few who wont get out of it so easily this time, but I wouldn't mind betting the head of the K/C council gets off - nasty piece of work who tried to blame the occupants of the block.

Even after all these days, some people have been given nothing except £10 and told to go to a hotel - in central London !!!! Without the help of volunteers living locally, they would have been without food and water even.

Reports of intense anger, that will not easily be forgotten - all down to the shambolic response (firefighters and police excepted) but the local council have done buggerrr all for days now.

The Queen should have given them use of say, a third of Buck Palace for a month as a gesture instead of just turning up and bumbling around - Im serious , she missed a golden opportunity to help.

[geosname]

I don't agree with your analysis of that council, who have been infamous over the years for being elitist.

The individuals are corrupt, it is being exposed daily, and had/have no interest in getting the best deal or such nonsense, they got a deal that suited their own corrupt pockets and used illegal materials - all revealed now.

Nor is it right to say 'now is not the time to discuss individual councils - wehatever their political leanings' - now is EXACTLY the time, name and shame - forget other councils, these Conservative councillors must be brought to account and jailed if found guilty.

If you cant see that this is what the people there want, you are misreading the situation - it is May's conservative government and specifically this Tory council that need to be, and are going to be talked about NOW.

Not some wishy washy 'oh all councils' and nonsense about 'lets hope good comes out of this' - that is just absolute bull and the victims will not take it.

 

 

It was Tory minister Philip Hammond that stated it, not me, if you wish I can send another link, I didn't realise the Daily Mail was such a subversive influence that thye restrict it there.

There are a few who wont get out of it so easily this time, but I wouldn't mind betting the head of the K/C council gets off - nasty piece of work who tried to blame the occupants of the block.

Even after all these days, some people have been given nothing except £10 and told to go to a hotel - in central London !!!! Without the help of volunteers living locally, they would have been without food and water even.

Reports of intense anger, that will not easily be forgotten - all down to the shambolic response (firefighters and police excepted) but the local council have done buggerrr all for days now.

The Queen should have given them use of say, a third of Buck Palace for a month as a gesture instead of just turning up and bumbling around - Im serious , she missed a golden opportunity to help.

 

Again you seem to be confusing "the council" with the councilors in what I said.

I have no knowledge of the council or the councilors in question.

"The council" is an entity that makes no decisions. The decisions are made on "the councils" behalf by the elected councilors... the councilors may change but "the council" remains. It is "the council" that is granted monies from government, it is the councilors who decide how to spend it.

I agree that corrupt councilors should be prosecuted, wherever they might be... and given your statement, which I have no reason to doubt, help isnt there when its needed most and by the most needy.

I hope that those responsible are named, shamed and prosecuted. I also hope that all high-rise multiple occupancy buildings are retro fitted with whatever is necessary to cope with the "worst possible scenario"... and this tragedy was the worst possible scenario imaginable.

[geosname]

As a PS I should add that I have tried to avoid reading much about this horrific tragedy as I find it emotionally disturbing.