Synectic Solutions make bid to buy PVFC

[stupers]

I'd love to audit the Vale accounts. In fact I'd love to audit every aspect of the club over the last 4 years. I'm sure the report would make for fascinating reading.

 

A tremendous job it would be. Let's apply!

[stupers]

This is what I think a lot of people are doing, hoping hes gone soon and backing the first bidder that comes along. I don't know how much of their future plans buyers would reveal after making their offers, and I know nothing of the 2 potential bidders so far, but all I'm saying is there a lot of pretend experts around who know nothing about the bidders and their plans and we just need to be careful and not get too carried away yet until we know what any buyer wants to do with our club. We're fed up of people making a mess of it.

 

Totally agree.

[Santa]

You've said this before but I don't understand what you mean. How was the club in debt by the amount of the purchase price from day one? The director did not lend the club money to buy itself???

I think that Mr. Penny Black let it be known on here a few weeks ago that Falcon Alliance, Norman's company, lent Alchemy Investment Group (Wildes' company, and the parent company of PVFC Ltd) £550k to buy the club (without the ground) from the administrators.

 

Falcon Alliance also lent £700k to Alchemy Land to buy the stadium. Nowadays Falcon Alliance owns the one share in Alchemy Land. However, at the time of the takeover, this was Wildes' company.

[Animal]

If I remember correctly, the club was purchased by Alchemy Investments which I think was owned by Wildes. I think Norman loaned Wildes the money for this so the debt was owed by AI, not the football club.

 

I'd have to know more about how it was all structured and subsequently restructured...which could probably be established with a bit of digging online. Ultimately though, whichever company purchased the football club business and assets on day one would have created a debt owed to NS. This ownership may have been transferred to another entity/company after it was restructured but there will always be a debt owed to NS if he personally provided the funds for the initial acquisition.

[Family Stand Terrier]

This is what I think a lot of people are doing, hoping hes gone soon and backing the first bidder that comes along. I don't know how much of their future plans buyers would reveal after making their offers, and I know nothing of the 2 potential bidders so far, but all I'm saying is there a lot of pretend experts around who know nothing about the bidders and their plans and we just need to be careful and not get too carried away yet until we know what any buyer wants to do with our club. We're fed up of people making a mess of it.

 

I think what you've demonstrated there, is that you're commenting on something you know nothing about. Your words "I know nothing of the 2 potential bidders so far". Well, a lot of us that back Synectics, do. One bidder has dropped out, and the other has been the subject of quite a substantial Sentinel article, which clearly lays out their intentions. In addition, Carol spoke extremely well on RS, and will be doing so again tonight at 6pm.

 

When you start your post off with, a "lot of people are...hoping he's gone soon and backing the first bidder that comes along", you're forgetting the numerous bids our current owner has received over the last 12 months. The Norwegian bid made for excellent reading. We know nothing of the Boston bid, all we have been told by Smurf is that they're hedge funds. I've not seen one person backing these bids, far from it, actively discouraging Smurf from taking that path. In a poll, set up by Smurf in March, selling to these "bidders" was by far the least popular option.

 

So, before you jump to conclusions, take the time to look through everything publicly available, because at the moment, it's you that appears to be making a decision based on blind faith. The options available include continuing with the status quo, however, any sane person comparing Smurfs performance over the last 4 years to the intentions laid out by Synectics last week, would come to the conclusion that Synectics are by far the best option for Port Vale Football Club. A huge majority of Vale fans have come to that conclusion based on the facts available to them.

 

At the moment Synectics intentions are just that, their intentions, their vision...I'm still waiting for Smurfs, and he's been in the club for 4 years.

[Santa]

I'd have to know more about how it was all structured and subsequently restructured...which could probably be established with a bit of digging online. Ultimately though, whichever company purchased the football club business and assets on day one would have created a debt owed to NS. This ownership may have been transferred to another entity/company after it was restructured but there will always be a debt owed to NS if he personally provided the funds for the initial acquisition.

 

OK, this is how I understand it:

 

Wildes wanted to buy the club but didn't have the money, or at least the cash. That was where Smurthwaite came in initially.

 

The lender was NS' company Falcon Alliance. The total amount borrowed was £1.25 million, the sale price of the club.

 

£550k to Alchemy Investment Group, the parent company of PVFC Ltd, the company who bought the football club.

 

£700k to Alchemy Land, who bought the ground.

 

After the restructuring (ie after NS and PW went their separate ways), FA obtained a 100% shareholding in AL so ultimately owned the asset.

 

How AIG cleared their £550k debt to FA is, I think, the interesting part.

[Fosse69]

I'm just going off facts. If a businessman of Smurf calibre thinks she cannot leave Vale in a better financial position going forward. I'm going to agree with him I'm sorry but that's my opinion.

It is the position he leaves the Vale in that worries a lot of people.

[Animal]

OK, this is how I understand it:

 

Wildes wanted to buy the club but didn't have the money, or at least the cash. That was where Smurthwaite came in initially.

 

The lender was NS' company Falcon Alliance. The total amount borrowed was £1.25 million, the sale price of the club.

 

£550k to Alchemy Investment Group, the parent company of PVFC Ltd, the company who bought the football club.

 

£700k to Alchemy Land, who bought the ground.

 

After the restructuring (ie after NS and PW went their separate ways), FA obtained a 100% shareholding in AL so ultimately owned the asset.

 

How AIG cleared their £550k debt to FA is, I think, the interesting part.

 

Crikey...Fountain of all knowledge you are! :)

 

How did we get to where we are now with Port Vale Football Club Ltd owning the 'business' and NS personally owning the company (ie not via AIG or the old PVFC Ltd)

[Grumpy Old Man]

It is the position he leaves the Vale in that worries a lot of people.

 

Agreed.There is a big difference between a business man (i.e running a business,dealing with possibly hundreds of people,setting up staffing structures etc) and buying and selling property which Smurf does.

Much better business men/women have failed in football and most have far more ability than Smurf who is way out of his depth and for the good of Port Vale needs to get out asp before we end up in the Conference.

[Guppy 4 England]

You've said this before but I don't understand what you mean. How was the club in debt by the amount of the purchase price from day one? The director did not lend the club money to buy itself???

 

How did the company purchase the golden share/ground from the administrators in the first place? It didnt buy itself, it purchased itself from another company. Not 100% and cant be bothered to check, but wasnt it PVFC 2001 ltd and now its Port Vale Football club ltd?

 

******Just seen that santa and animal have pretty much covered it.

[Jacko51]

OK, this is how I understand it:

 

Wildes wanted to buy the club but didn't have the money, or at least the cash. That was where Smurthwaite came in initially.

 

The lender was NS' company Falcon Alliance. The total amount borrowed was £1.25 million, the sale price of the club.

 

£550k to Alchemy Investment Group, the parent company of PVFC Ltd, the company who bought the football club.

 

£700k to Alchemy Land, who bought the ground.

 

After the restructuring (ie after NS and PW went their separate ways), FA obtained a 100% shareholding in AL so ultimately owned the asset.

 

How AIG cleared their £550k debt to FA is, I think, the interesting part.

 

Your last sentence there is indeed the interesting part. If, as was rumoured at the time, club funds were used to pay back the debt to Falcon, then the hole that left in the club's finances would have had to be covered by Norman's directors loan?? So the first part of the DL was actually the money Norman had already used to buy the club???? If that part of the loan is on the books does that mean he bought the club for nothing????? I'm confused.

[Guppy 4 England]

That's what I've struggled with Jean after reading that comment. People are quick to criticise Synectics when they mistakenly believe that they would borrow money to buy the club, yet when (if true) Smurf placed his purchase fee on the club as a loan, that's exactly the same thing. Hypocritical to say the least.

 

Not necessarily, if Smurf is putting cash in (in the form of a directors loan) he isnt reliant on financial institutions who could request payback at any point say like a bank loan. Its under his control not a third parties.

[Santa]

Crikey...Fountain of all knowledge you are! :)

 

How did we get to where we are now with Port Vale Football Club Ltd owning the 'business' and NS personally owning the company (ie not via AIG or the old PVFC Ltd)

At some point in 2013 when PW left, NS becomes a director of a lot of the companies in PW's group so PW must have signed them over lock, stock and barrel. A lot of them were dissolved fairly quickly.

 

In Spring 2014 NS set up a new company, Port Vale Football Club Ltd and transferred a lot of stuff over from PVFC Ltd, including the FL golden share. By Penny Black's own admission PVFC Ltd agreed CVAs with many creditors who had built up in the first year after admin, paying them 60% of what they were owed. There was also that winding up petition (HMRC?) for the Oldco. in July 2014 which NS saw off.

 

I'm not entirely sure if all of that was in line with Football League rules (was it an insolvency event?) but they were probably so exasperated by the man that they just waved it through for a quiet life.

[Family Stand Terrier]

Not necessarily, if Smurf is putting cash in (in the form of a directors loan) he isnt reliant on financial institutions who could request payback at any point say like a bank loan. Its under his control not a third parties.

Purely hypothetical as Synectics don't need a loan to fund the purchase (thus putting the club in debt), however, if they did, I'd rather the club be in debt to a financial institution that had the confidence to lend to the business in the first place, at a level that the club could service. By comparison, we are currently in debt to a man whose decision making and chaotic reign puts the club in the precarious position that this one man could control our destiny depending on how he feels on any given day.

 

Now all this is news to me. Smurfs supporters for a long time have championed the amount of money he has put into the club. The counter argument has always been he wants it all back (never mind the fact he's wasted it all and added no value to the assets in the process). Well another view has always been, and still is to some, that he saved the club. To now find out he actually added that figure to the DL, rips that myth apart. It shows the character we're dealing with, and throws away another myth, that he will only do what's right for the club.

 

His actions over the last 4 years prove he's only in it for himself. Further emphasised by his actions over the last few days. Always has and always will be.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using the onevalefan mobile app

[Animal]

At some point in 2013 when PW left, NS becomes a director of a lot of the companies in PW's group so PW must have signed them over lock, stock and barrel. A lot of them were dissolved fairly quickly.

 

In Spring 2014 NS set up a new company, Port Vale Football Club Ltd and transferred a lot of stuff over from PVFC Ltd, including the FL golden share. By Penny Black's own admission PVFC Ltd agreed CVAs with many creditors who had built up in the first year after admin, paying them 60% of what they were owed. There was also that winding up petition (HMRC?) for the Oldco. in July 2014 which NS saw off.

 

I'm not entirely sure if all of that was in line with Football League rules (was it an insolvency event?) but they were probably so exasperated by the man that they just waved it through for a quiet life.

 

So..although we'll never know the true audit trail for sure, and although the actual transactions and restructuring that took place would have been more complicated than this, NS's debt (owed to him) would have ultimately flowed through companies and settled in his DLA within Port Vale Football Club Ltd.