LABOUR learning lessons?

[mr.hobblesworth]

I think increasing NHS funding is a good move although I do think that no-one has yet mentioned a key issue. With a population that is ageing (and continuing to do so) something needs to be done about the quality of care provided for the elderly, how this will be paid for and, for me the key point, how we perceive and value the people who do this. Even if the minimum wage is rising to £8 in 5 or so years, this still leaves carers - the people who wipe backsides, make sure medication is taken and ensure the well-being of the elderly and vulnerable - at rock bottom, some of the lowest paid people in society. Until there is a wholesale re-evaluation of these people's roles and how we as a society reward these workers, the quality of care for all of us (eventually) will suffer. I'd love to see Labour try and tackle that.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

A good point..not only the moral issue that such people should be well rewarded (they should) but paying well will attract 'better' people to be professional carers

 

I don't claim to have the answers but I do believe it will take decades to address and that in the meantime many will suffer from poor care. We will have to consider some very radical solutions as the less radical just aren't working

[mr.hobblesworth]

It could be such a vote winner (not that that should be the motivating factor) and it does seem to be something that Labour should take the lead in, if only because the increase in private care has led to a serious downturn in the quality of care. It's horrible. Something like an apprenticeship with real room for advancement and wages that recognise the importance of the work. These people should be appreciated in the way that nurses are, instead of getting the minimum wage and not paid for travelling time etc. Anyway, it's off topic. Back to Ed!

[mr.hobblesworth]

Channel 4 is saying that Ed actually forgot part of his speech today (the parts on the deficit and immigration). Not forgot as in stuttering over a few lines and having to refer back to his notes, but forgot as in totally forgot to read those bits out. That's not going to help matters!

 

I wish he'd opt out of these tedious games that party leaders are supposed to play nowadays, all this "I met someone today" and that pointy finger thing. HE should just sit there staring at Cameron and Clegg and Hague and IDS and all those other ****ers with utter and open contempt, regularly pointing out what they are doing for the sake of their private shareholders rather than in the public interest, and not holding back on constantly taking them to account and just calling them a bunch of ludicrous, immoral ****wits.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

It could be such a vote winner (not that that should be the motivating factor) and it does seem to be something that Labour should take the lead in, if only because the increase in private care has led to a serious downturn in the quality of care. It's horrible. Something like an apprenticeship with real room for advancement and wages that recognise the importance of the work. These people should be appreciated in the way that nurses are, instead of getting the minimum wage and not paid for travelling time etc. Anyway, it's off topic. Back to Ed!

 

 

Spot on

 

My Mum had to go into a home when her dementia got too bad and the care was superb. The staff were wonderful but when I spent some time talking to them about their experiences, training, wages, conditions and so in it was rather depressing to hear some of it first hand.

 

I'm married to a nurse so I get to hear a lot about that aspect of care as well...sometimes an awful lot ;)

 

Doesn't make me an expert but has given me some exposure to the matter

 

Making the whole area more of a profession is one avenue that should be explored..it would cost money, take time, block entry to the less able so some peole curently working will be lost along the way, take a long time to implement and so on but if it leads to professional well paid and well looked after carers (both in homes and visiting people in their homes) then surely it's worth it. That's not to denegrate the many people who do an excellent job now..any process needs to include them and do all it can to retain them and help them.

 

I think we alos need to revisit the whole idea of private nursing homes..not to eliminate them completely but to ensure that local authorities increase their direct provision for those needing care. What is happening now isn't working

[Bycarsbill]

We obviously have different ideas of what constitutes left wing and idealistic. Or do you consider an increase to the minimum wage and the mansion tax (for example) to be these things?

 

Whether left wing or idealistic is a very moot point--whatever the semantics--as usual everything with Labour is uncosted. Thay have always been good at spending public money, just never able to balance the books. The fact that Miliband in his speech on Tuesday admits that he forgot to mention the deficit speaks volumes and tells its own story of the reoccurring nightmare of all Labour governments since the war leaving the country broke after they've been in office. I have absolutely no doubt that should Labour get in next May, we shall be discussing the same problems in 2020 should their governance last that long!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Agreed..back to lessons learned then..hopefully..by all parties

[Guppy 4 England]

Whether left wing or idealistic is a very moot point--whatever the semantics--as usual everything with Labour is uncosted. Thay have always been good at spending public money, just never able to balance the books. The fact that Miliband in his speech on Tuesday admits that he forgot to mention the deficit speaks volumes and tells its own story of the reoccurring nightmare of all Labour governments since the war leaving the country broke after they've been in office. I have absolutely no doubt that should Labour get in next May, we shall be discussing the same problems in 2020 should their governance last that long!

 

Spot on.

 

If they get in i fear we will be bankrupt before 2020. Idiotic policies and lead by a moron.

[kevin_struggles]

I think increasing NHS funding is a good move although I do think that no-one has yet mentioned a key issue. With a population that is ageing (and continuing to do so) something needs to be done about the quality of care provided for the elderly, how this will be paid for and, for me the key point, how we perceive and value the people who do this. Even if the minimum wage is rising to £8 in 5 or so years, this still leaves carers - the people who wipe backsides, make sure medication is taken and ensure the well-being of the elderly and vulnerable - at rock bottom, some of the lowest paid people in society. Until there is a wholesale re-evaluation of these people's roles and how we as a society reward these workers, the quality of care for all of us (eventually) will suffer. I'd love to see Labour try and tackle that.

 

It depends what you mean by increasing NHS funding. If you mean what labour usually do commission yet another round of expensive consultations and studies then introduce more regulation and another layer of managment I would be against it. I dont think the NHS needs more funding I just think the money needs to be spent in the right places. You could probably remove 60% of the managment structure without even noticing they were gone.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Spot on.

 

If they get in i fear we will be bankrupt before 2020. Idiotic policies and lead by a moron.

 

I never realised you were so well qualified. You must be to be able to label a Harvard lecturer with an MSc from the LSE a 'moron'.

[mr.hobblesworth]

It depends what you mean by increasing NHS funding. If you mean what labour usually do commission yet another round of expensive consultations and studies then introduce more regulation and another layer of managment I would be against it. I dont think the NHS needs more funding I just think the money needs to be spent in the right places. You could probably remove 60% of the managment structure without even noticing they were gone.

 

At least they're not selling chunks of it off to their mates.

[Birdy]

Whether left wing or idealistic is a very moot point--whatever the semantics--as usual everything with Labour is uncosted. Thay have always been good at spending public money, just never able to balance the books. The fact that Miliband in his speech on Tuesday admits that he forgot to mention the deficit speaks volumes and tells its own story of the reoccurring nightmare of all Labour governments since the war leaving the country broke after they've been in office. I have absolutely no doubt that should Labour get in next May, we shall be discussing the same problems in 2020 should their governance last that long!

 

The Tories matched pound for pound the last labour governments spending plan. It was the Tory supported financial sector that caused the global crash, not just the over spending of the last government. If everyone paid their fair share, there wouldn't be a crisis.

 

It is very difficult to find anything that Tory party gave the country (mass not minority) as they opposed the introduction of the welfare state, NHS, voting for women and the working classes, state housing and education for all.

 

Root and branch overhaul of the political system, how it operates, it's links to media, business and powerful needs addressing. They are 'elected' to serve us not just the wealthy and powerful.

[Bycarsbill]

The Tories matched pound for pound the last labour governments spending plan. It was the Tory supported financial sector that caused the global crash, not just the over spending of the last government. If everyone paid their fair share, there wouldn't be a crisis.

 

It is very difficult to find anything that Tory party gave the country (mass not minority) as they opposed the introduction of the welfare state, NHS, voting for women and the working classes, state housing and education for all.

 

Root and branch overhaul of the political system, how it operates, it's links to media, business and powerful needs addressing. They are 'elected' to serve us not just the wealthy and powerful.

 

Carry on dreaming--if you believe your own unrealistic (and historically incorrect) diatribe, then carry on. There's a lot to be desired from how any government runs the country and I'll grant you that the current crop of party leaders are probably less worldly-wise than any (of whatever political persuasion) that have gone before, but forget all the personal political bias and check back on historical fact and you'll see that the previous Labour governments have all left this country with a financial burden to bear. Gordon Brown even managed to "end boom & bust" according to his own ego and myth--Aha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The Tories matched pound for pound the last labour governments spending plan. It was the Tory supported financial sector that caused the global crash, not just the over spending of the last government.

 

If only it were that simple

 

If everyone paid their fair share, there wouldn't be a crisis.

 

Agreed..with the emphais on everyone and whatever is fair

 

It is very difficult to find anything that Tory party gave the country (mass not minority) as they opposed the introduction of the welfare state, NHS, voting for women and the working classes, state housing and education for all.

 

Given that the Conservatives are all about "small" government and achiveing positive things thru the private sector rather than huge government initiatives and social engineering it's a bit off to make such comparisons..you would not expect the Conservative party to achieve improvements thru such measures. Might as well criticise labour for not being able to manage spending and revenue generation thru growth..who expects them to?

 

 

 

Root and branch overhaul of the political system, how it operates, it's links to media, business and powerful needs addressing. They are 'elected' to serve us not just the wealthy and powerful.

 

That currently applies to all parties

[mr.hobblesworth]

Carry on dreaming--if you believe your own unrealistic (and historically incorrect) diatribe, then carry on. There's a lot to be desired from how any government runs the country and I'll grant you that the current crop of party leaders are probably less worldly-wise than any (of whatever political persuasion) that have gone before, but forget all the personal political bias and check back on historical fact and you'll see that the previous Labour governments have all left this country with a financial burden to bear. Gordon Brown even managed to "end boom & bust" according to his own ego and myth--Aha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you honestly believe that the financial crisis would have not happened under a tory government. Gordon Brown is widely regarded as having played a major part in preventing the recession from being even worse.