LABOUR learning lessons?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Unlike the people who actually created the mess, the financial sector.

 

If only it were that simple

[Birdy]

Here's what Goebbels said "“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”"

 

Much more difficult these days to shield people from the consequences of the lie given comms technology and so on..the truth will out eventually and i believe in this age people are much more cynical, more worldly, have access to multiple sources and so on. UK isn't North Korea

 

Actually that is not always the case. Take the bugging of phones for example no media outlet took moral ownership of this, although the NOTW got caught and charged it was common practice amongst all, so they dare not take the moral high ground for fear of getting prosecuted themselves.

 

A few weeks before the 2010 election the editors of the main newspapers meet up[ and agreed to support the Conservatives as it coincided with their interests not the readerships. They are part of the established elite and want to protect themselves.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Actually that is not always the case. Take the bugging of phones for example no media outlet took moral ownership of this, although the NOTW got caught and charged it was common practice amongst all, so they dare not take the moral high ground for fear of getting prosecuted themselves.

 

Wasn't it the Guardian that exposed lots of the activities?

 

A few weeks before the 2010 election the editors of the main newspapers meet up[ and agreed to support the Conservatives as it coincided with their interests not the readerships. They are part of the established elite and want to protect themselves.

 

They are a business so of course they want to protect themselves and therefore their shareholders..they don't exist to represent the interests of their readers...although obviously they must/should operate within the law

[Birdy]

Wasn't it the Guardian that exposed lots of the activities?

 

 

 

They are a business so of course they want to protect themselves and therefore their shareholders..they don't exist to represent the interests of their readers...although obviously they must/should operate within the law

The clue is in the name 'news' and 'paper'.

[kevin_struggles]

I would be happier with Labour if they actually stood up for the "working man" and woman of course. Instead of increasing the tax burden on those in work to pay increasing amounts of benefits to those out of work.

 

Their pledge to increase the minimum wage wont work either in my opinion. If businesses are forced to pay their workers more money they will just make a few redundant to avoid increasing their costs. Plus it will tip a few smaller businesses over the edge into bankruptcy

 

We need to encourage businesses to expand and create jobs not hammer them with higher wage costs on top of the expense of keeping up with the endless waves of legislation from Europe. Until we have fuller employment levels people who want to work have no choice but to accept poor wages. If businesses are encouraged and allowed to thrive then people will have more choice and with choice comes power.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

An absolutely shocking comment..but no surprise oh enlightened one. Please keep telling us what we are all too stupid to grasp for ourselves

 

I wouldn't trust Milliband to wipe my ass! Balls on the other hand...! ;)

[carl]

Bringing the £8 minimum wage in will kill at least three birds with 1 stone- many unemployed will actually apply for a job and have more incentive to better themselves furthermore there will be better returns to the state's coffers in the form of income tax furthermore we can then escape the realisation that is cheap foreign labour and possibly possibly Labour may see sense and actually think about escaping the dreaded clutches of the EU as labour from abroad will be less dependent upon it will become a nationwide revolution and we will then start to have a cleaner more responsible society- there will be less borrowing and less people depending on tax credits saving even more money..Its a win win

[Santa]

When you take inflation into account, wages have gone down in real terms since the crash.

 

£8 an hour by the year 2020 isn't unachievable. The Tories are putting it up to £6.50 soon anyway.

[Bycarsbill]

The failures of Blairism (aka Post-Thatcherism) won't be remedied by lurching even further to the right.

 

And if you're old enough to understand history and have observed what's currently going on in France, we ain't going to remedy anything by the left wing idealistic tripe we're hearing from Ed Miliband and his cronies!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The clue is in the name 'news' and 'paper'.

 

You'll have to enlighten me as to what you are getting at with that post.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I would be happier with Labour if they actually stood up for the "working man" and woman of course. Instead of increasing the tax burden on those in work to pay increasing amounts of benefits to those out of work.

 

Their pledge to increase the minimum wage wont work either in my opinion. If businesses are forced to pay their workers more money they will just make a few redundant to avoid increasing their costs. Plus it will tip a few smaller businesses over the edge into bankruptcy

 

We need to encourage businesses to expand and create jobs not hammer them with higher wage costs on top of the expense of keeping up with the endless waves of legislation from Europe. Until we have fuller employment levels people who want to work have no choice but to accept poor wages. If businesses are encouraged and allowed to thrive then people will have more choice and with choice comes power.

 

Agree with every word of that

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Bringing the £8 minimum wage in will kill at least three birds with 1 stone- many unemployed will actually apply for a job and have more incentive to better themselves

 

Indeed an increased differential between wages and benefits by increasing wages would be a good thing

 

furthermore there will be better returns to the state's coffers in the form of income tax

 

That assumes that the increased rate does not actually result in fewer jobs..which it could.

 

furtherrmore we can then escape the realisation that is cheap foreign labour

 

I don't get that. We have a mimimum wage now and we have cheap foreign labour so how will an increase in the minimum wage remove cheap foreign labour? If they can undercut locals now then how will an increase in the minimum wage stop that? Whatever mechanism employers are using now to employ cheap foreign labour they will surely be even more incentivised to use it if the minimum wage is higher? I understand that the min wage applies to foreign workers and not paying it to them is illegal but an increase to the min wage will unfortunately encourage illegal payments to foreign workers

 

I'm all for increasing the minimum wage..it's an outrage that people working cannot afford to support their families and that other working people subsidise employers by making up the shortfall between what employers pay and what people need to live thru benefits. But it has to be balanced so as not to actually reduce jobs, increase costs, reduce competition, increase inflation and so on.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

And if you're old enough to understand history and have observed what's currently going on in France, we ain't going to remedy anything by the left wing idealistic tripe we're hearing from Ed Miliband and his cronies!

 

Must admit what is hapening in France whilst tragic on so many levels is fascinating and much can be learned from events there

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I wouldn't trust Milliband to wipe my ass! Balls on the other hand...! ;)

 

You'd trust Milliband to wipe your balls?

[Bycarsbill]

Must admit what is hapening in France whilst tragic on so many levels is fascinating and much can be learned from events there

 

You're so right--hope the general British electorate are as savvy!