Mandela

[Yukon]

Wont be missed, he has to be the only celebrated terrorist in the world.

 

If that's what you honestly think then I feel sorry for you

[Lornelounger]

What Yukon said. One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. This man was a true hero.

[Houston Valiant]

In 1961, Mandela was the founder of Umkhonto we Siswe (”Spear of the People”), ANC’s terrorist arm, and never during all the time he was in prison did he condemn that organization’s acts of indiscriminate terrorism against civilians.

 

Mandela and the ANC learned from Yasir Arafat how to ‘discipline’ collaborators and make sure people toed the party line.

 

These included ‘necklacing’(putting a gasoline soaked tire over the victims head to bind their arms and setting it on fire, burning families in their homes in Soweto, operating what amounted to a protection racket among black South African businessmen and torturing dissidents at ANC gulags in Angola, something even Mandela has admitted occurred,although he’s never apologized or regretted it.

 

Mandela was also responsible for signing off on the Church Street bombing in Pretoria 1983,which killed 19 and wounded more than 200, mostly families in a busy shopping street at rush hour. The commander of that operation was Abu Bakr Ismail, a PLO terrorist.

 

“The problem is that Mandela has achieved next to nothing in his relatively short political career which saw South Africa

rapidly decline to the status of the world's most violent and crime-ridden country. To add to the confusion, is the

fact that his greatest friends are communists and Muslim dictators like Fidel Castro, Moammar Qaddafi, Yasser Arafat

and Saddam Hussein. His ex-wife Winnie Mandela, whom he quickly jettisoned when it became clear she was a

considerable embarrassment to his political career, is a self-confessed advocate of terrorism and violence, and has even

committed murder. Nelson and Winnie Mandela are an African version of Bill and Hillary Clinton. In his public statements

and speeches Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the

remaining communist and Muslim dictatorships of the world. He condemns mistakes and controversial policies of the west,

but refuses to publicly condemn the genocides and brutal repression of current or former communist countries; he is

supposedly a “champion of freedom and democracy”, the “hero of oppressed people everywhere” but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice!

 

 

Off the meds again? Keep taking your tablets and you'll be fine.

[Andyregs]

Wont be missed, he has to be the only celebrated terrorist in the world.

 

When younger he was part of the ANC and was labelled by some as a terrorist. Imagine for ome second that the uk had been taken over by Germans 60 years ago, or Muslim extremists. And although we outnumber them by millions, we can't vote, live in abject poverty and have very few human rights. Whether or not you condone violence, if people fought against it would they be terrorists? Regardless of your views on before he went to prison, his legacy is what he did when he was released. The country could of declined into violence and a thirst for revenge. His leadership guided them away from that. Not only pushing for reconciliation, but actively embracing both ethnic groups in healing the country. Considering the events of the previous 30 years, that was amazing, and a brilliant political achievement. How some can hail thatcher as great and not Mandela defies belief.

[Andyregs]

In 1961, Mandela was the founder of Umkhonto we Siswe (”Spear of the People”), ANC’s terrorist arm, and never during all the time he was in prison did he condemn that organization’s acts of indiscriminate terrorism against civilians.

 

Mandela and the ANC learned from Yasir Arafat how to ‘discipline’ collaborators and make sure people toed the party line.

 

These included ‘necklacing’(putting a gasoline soaked tire over the victims head to bind their arms and setting it on fire, burning families in their homes in Soweto, operating what amounted to a protection racket among black South African businessmen and torturing dissidents at ANC gulags in Angola, something even Mandela has admitted occurred,although he’s never apologized or regretted it.

 

Mandela was also responsible for signing off on the Church Street bombing in Pretoria 1983,which killed 19 and wounded more than 200, mostly families in a busy shopping street at rush hour. The commander of that operation was Abu Bakr Ismail, a PLO terrorist.

 

“The problem is that Mandela has achieved next to nothing in his relatively short political career which saw South Africa

rapidly decline to the status of the world's most violent and crime-ridden country. To add to the confusion, is the

fact that his greatest friends are communists and Muslim dictators like Fidel Castro, Moammar Qaddafi, Yasser Arafat

and Saddam Hussein. His ex-wife Winnie Mandela, whom he quickly jettisoned when it became clear she was a

considerable embarrassment to his political career, is a self-confessed advocate of terrorism and violence, and has even

committed murder. Nelson and Winnie Mandela are an African version of Bill and Hillary Clinton. In his public statements

and speeches Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the

remaining communist and Muslim dictatorships of the world. He condemns mistakes and controversial policies of the west,

but refuses to publicly condemn the genocides and brutal repression of current or former communist countries; he is

supposedly a “champion of freedom and democracy”, the “hero of oppressed people everywhere” but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice!

 

Copied and pasted word for word. Anyone would think you googled 'Nelson Mandela terrorist' Into the internet to find your opinion for yourself.

[Yukon]

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

Those who consider Mandela a terrorist need to consider the bigger picture. It's true he used violence to help his cause, no one is denying that, but you must look at who and what that violence was aimed at. He fought against oppression and hatred and to defend the civil liberties that we today take for granted.

 

The most important thing to take into account though was when he was released from prison and the country was on the verge of boiling over, he chose peace and forgiveness. On his word he could have caused carnage of an unspeakable scale but instead, he decided to show his "enemies" the courtesy and compassion that they themselves had denied him.

 

Think back 27 years, before we beat Spurs in the cup and imagine spending all that time incarcerated simply because you believed in equality for all. Now imagine how you'd feel about it; I don't know about you but if I had to use one word it would be "anger". It took a great man to not react to that but he was smart and knew if he let those ill feelings consume him he would never be free, even after walking through those prison gates. There is a lesson for all of us there.

 

I genuinely do not think in our lifetime a person we will see the passing of a man of Nelson Mandela's importance. He taught us that one man can make a difference and I for one am very sad but very grateful for what he did, not just for South Africa but for the world.

[Birdy]

The ignorance of two posters above is astounding.

[Yukon]

The ignorance of two posters above is astounding.

 

It's bliss, so I'm told Birdy

[Birdy]

It's bliss, so I'm told Birdy

He was labelled a terrorist by SA pro apartheid government so I assume anyone who believes the same has sympathies with this level of oppression and inequality based on skin colour.

 

Ironically those extremists who label him a terrorist are usually those that support Loyalist terrorism in NI.

[Jacko51]

In 1961, Mandela was the founder of Umkhonto we Siswe (”Spear of the People”), ANC’s terrorist arm, and never during all the time he was in prison did he condemn that organization’s acts of indiscriminate terrorism against civilians.

 

Mandela and the ANC learned from Yasir Arafat how to ‘discipline’ collaborators and make sure people toed the party line.

 

These included ‘necklacing’(putting a gasoline soaked tire over the victims head to bind their arms and setting it on fire, burning families in their homes in Soweto, operating what amounted to a protection racket among black South African businessmen and torturing dissidents at ANC gulags in Angola, something even Mandela has admitted occurred,although he’s never apologized or regretted it.

 

Mandela was also responsible for signing off on the Church Street bombing in Pretoria 1983,which killed 19 and wounded more than 200, mostly families in a busy shopping street at rush hour. The commander of that operation was Abu Bakr Ismail, a PLO terrorist.

 

“The problem is that Mandela has achieved next to nothing in his relatively short political career which saw South Africa

rapidly decline to the status of the world's most violent and crime-ridden country. To add to the confusion, is the

fact that his greatest friends are communists and Muslim dictators like Fidel Castro, Moammar Qaddafi, Yasser Arafat

and Saddam Hussein. His ex-wife Winnie Mandela, whom he quickly jettisoned when it became clear she was a

considerable embarrassment to his political career, is a self-confessed advocate of terrorism and violence, and has even

committed murder. Nelson and Winnie Mandela are an African version of Bill and Hillary Clinton. In his public statements

and speeches Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the

remaining communist and Muslim dictatorships of the world. He condemns mistakes and controversial policies of the west,

but refuses to publicly condemn the genocides and brutal repression of current or former communist countries; he is

supposedly a “champion of freedom and democracy”, the “hero of oppressed people everywhere” but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice!

 

As you appear to get all your information from a lazy internet search, let me add a few snippets to your knowledge which you will be able to read on this particular corner of the net.

 

The ANC was founded in the early years of the last century as the black people of South Africa sought ways of campaigning against the discrimination of the government. For decades they fought peacefully against such discrimination and were totally ignorned. Indeed, in 1948 the National Party of Daniel Malan introduced their policy of apartheid which made matters even worse. The Group Areas Act designated where black people could live and those in areas which were not designated black were forcibly removed (google Sophiatown, you're good at googling). The Immorality Act made relations between black and white couples illegal and made it impossible for mixed race couples to live together. The Population Registration Act meant that everyone in the country was designated according to race - stories at the time suggested that this process was completely random which policeman sticking a pencil in your hair, if it was curly and the pencil didn't fall out then you must be black! (Basil D'Olivera was designated coloured so he was unable to play first class cricket in his own country). The Pass Laws controlled the movements of the black population.

 

Despite all of these restrictions, the ANC with Mandela as one of its leaders, continued to protest peacefully. The Defiance Campaign of the early 1950s copied the passive resistance strategies of Ghandi in India. The publication of the Freedom Charter saw Mandela and a number of other black leaders arrested and charged with treason on the basis that the Charter showed they must be communists. Still the ANC did not resort to violent protest.

 

Then came Sharpeville. In 1960 a protest was organised against the Pass Laws which saw a large group of black protesters arrive at the police station in Sharpeville without their passes - with such numbers involved it would be impossible for the police to arrest them. The police opened fire on the crowd and 69 unarmed civilians were shot. It was Sharpeville which led to the formation of Umkhonto we Siswe - decades of peaceful protest had achieved nothing and the government had shown their willingness to use serious violence against the protestors. It is astonishing in the circumstances that the ANC and other black protest groups had avoided violent protest for so long.

 

If you think Unkhonto we Siswe were terrorists then so was the French Resistance during the war. So is every other group which has fought a battle for freedom. In the 1980s the white South Africans were convinced that the country would descend into bloodshed if the blacks were given the vote. That the transition was achieved relatively peacefully was entirely a result of Mandela's determination that there would be no revenge against his former jailers and their government. The man was no saint but he was an astonishing individual and if you can't see that then I suggest you are not looking hard enough.

 

By the way - I wrote this, not wikipedia!

[Yukon]

He was labelled a terrorist by SA pro apartheid government so I assume anyone who believes the same has sympathies with this level of oppression and inequality based on skin colour.

 

Ironically those extremists who label him a terrorist are usually those that support Loyalist terrorism in NI.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

That's a fantastic post too Jean

 

For those interested, there is a book of condolence on the Nelson Mandela Foundation website:

 

http://www.nelsonmandela.org/news/entry/message-from-the-nelson-mandela-foundation-the-nelson-mandela-childrens-fun

[Birdy]

Brilliant Jean

[aspins-revenge]

What Jean said.

 

The world is a much worse place without Mandela. I'd struggle to think of any single person who has bought about such dramatic social change in the face of such adversity.

 

PS. I'd always wondered what that Terre Blanche was doing these days. It turns out he posts on OVF.

[cheshirevaliant]

I wonder how South Africa will respond to this news, once the initial period of mourning is over? I suspect there are many who are not quite as forgiving as Mandela was.

[PVFC764]

Great man, who did a lot for South Africa and should be honoured for what he did.

 

However, why did the BBC not wait 7 minutes or just put it on as rolling news on the bottom of the screen, then put it as the main part of the news, instead of stopping "Mrs Brown's Boys". There was only a bit of it left.