Oscar Pistorius

[EricHamesis]

Is OJ Simpson's defence lawyer available?

[lozza]

It looks like the police will charge him with murder and they are not considering other people being involved such as a burglar. South Africa is a violent place and he lived on a secure estate for that reason. So mistaken self defence could still be a justification put forward and we have to wait and see. That might move him from murder to manslaughter. Otherwise what on earth could wind up a guy to kill a woman in that fashion?

 

There have been a lot of cases recently of people of good standing spectacularly falling from grace and this is another one. It makes me feel despondent.

 

I'm not sure the intruder story could be used as a defence.

 

Surely you know what your partner looks like??? And why did he have his legs on if it was the middle of the night? I don't think you can sleep in those on medical grounds, I may be wrong. It was something I was mulling over today as more came out.

[Santa]

Good work Columbo.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I'm not sure the intruder story could be used as a defence.

 

Surely you know what your partner looks like???

 

Radio reporting this morning that she was shot 'through a door' so maybe didn't see who it was?

 

And why did he have his legs on if it was the middle of the night?

 

Maybe he was up and awake? Maybe he put them on shen he heard an intruder? People are often up and moving around in the early hours for all sorts of reasons..maybe he just couldn't sleep?

 

I don't think you can sleep in those on medical grounds, I may be wrong.

 

I have no idea

[Warren]

The prosecution have charged him with premeditated murder. They need a motive for that and one hasn't emerged? A prosecution putting the worst scenario means that it will be examined properly and it also sets the basis for any plea bargaining at a higher level than might be the case with a lesser charge.

 

Unless a motive is found I think he can provide a tenable non criminal state of the mind defence in his clumsy actions. He looks more guilty of manslaughter / criminal negligence. I am minded to be critical of his attitude - you know if I had a gun and had the door to the bathroom covered I would be reasonably confident in shouting a warning or firing a warning shot. But I guess one has to factor in his unfortunate handicap in this situation and that could cause more panic in the mind.

[SuperValiant1876]

The prosecution have charged him with premeditated murder. They need a motive for that and one hasn't emerged? A prosecution putting the worst scenario means that it will be examined properly and it also sets the basis for any plea bargaining at a higher level than might be the case with a lesser charge.

 

Unless a motive is found I think he can provide a tenable non criminal state of the mind defence in his clumsy actions. He looks more guilty of manslaughter / criminal negligence. I am minded to be critical of his attitude - you know if I had a gun and had the door to the bathroom covered I would be reasonably confident in shouting a warning or firing a warning shot. But I guess one has to factor in his unfortunate handicap in this situation and that could cause more panic in the mind.

 

 

you never fail......his "unfortunate handicap" didn't seem to effect his ability to win an Olympic medal. His handicap will have no effect on his mind. You are offensive as usual. He should be and will be treated the same as anyone else, able bodied or not.

 

PLease though, just for the sake of it explain how his unfortunate handicap would effect his mind in that situation?

[melv]

you never fail......his "unfortunate handicap" didn't seem to effect his ability to win an Olympic medal. His handicap will have no effect on his mind. You are offensive as usual. He should be and will be treated the same as anyone else, able bodied or not.

 

PLease though, just for the sake of it explain how his unfortunate handicap would effect his mind in that situation?

 

Disabilities can have strange effects on peoples state of mind.In such a situation could feel more vulnerable than an able bodied person.Add to that that it has been reported that he has had trouble before and death threats.

[SuperValiant1876]

Disabilities can have strange effects on peoples state of mind.In such a situation could feel more vulnerable than an able bodied person.Add to that that it has been reported that he has had trouble before and death threats.

 

 

Warren is suggesting he should have his disability factored in. I disagreed. I asked him to explain his meaning in this circumstance. I suspect his explanation will differ from yours slightly.

[aspins-revenge]

Clumsy actions?

 

He shot an unarmed woman four times in the head and chest.

 

What next. The holocaust. A detail of dyspraxia.

[Warren]

you never fail......his "unfortunate handicap" didn't seem to effect his ability to win an Olympic medal. His handicap will have no effect on his mind. You are offensive as usual. He should be and will be treated the same as anyone else, able bodied or not.

 

PLease though, just for the sake of it explain how his unfortunate handicap would effect his mind in that situation?

 

The word handicap from the Oxford English Dictionary is given the following meaning - "a condition that markedly restricts a person’s ability to function physically ..." His explanation that he went after the perceived gunmen on his stumps fits precisely with being handicapped in the situation and is certainly unfortunate in an anticipated confrontation. His further explanation is that he returned to the bedroom and put on his artificial legs after the shooting and then realised that Reeva was not in bed. This he said all happened in the dark.

 

I think there is plenty to affect his mind in all that and particularly in darkness. A disabled person is more likely in my opinion to feel vulnerable and more likely to panic and take preemptive action.

 

1. f3 e5

2. g4 Qh4# - fools mate - do better next time.

[Andyregs]

The prosecution have charged him with premeditated murder. They need a motive for that and one hasn't emerged? A prosecution putting the worst scenario means that it will be examined properly and it also sets the basis for any plea bargaining at a higher level than might be the case with a lesser charge.

 

Unless a motive is found I think he can provide a tenable non criminal state of the mind defence in his clumsy actions. He looks more guilty of manslaughter / criminal negligence. I am minded to be critical of his attitude - you know if I had a gun and had the door to the bathroom covered I would be reasonably confident in shouting a warning or firing a warning shot. But I guess one has to factor in his unfortunate handicap in this situation and that could cause more panic in the mind.

 

How do you know there wasn't a motive? Because they haven't told the newspapers every detail? There is a huge amount of evidence yet to be shared I'd imagine, so your whole 'fools mate' nonsense is a bit premature don't you think Sherlock. Or perhaps you should volunteer yourself up to be his lawyer seeing as you have already wrapped the whole case up.

Did he live with his girlfriend? If so then to shoot through a bathroom door because he hears someone is ridiculous. She was also shot in the face through the door. Does that suggest some sort of confrontation/dialogue through the door? He knew the person was behind the door (I'm presuming it wasn't a bathroom the width of the door). Like I said, lots of evidence we have yet to hear. Perhaps there is a history of domestic violence? Perhaps there was an affair? Perhaps they just had an argument and she patronised his disability? Perhaps she had a dictionary in her hand when they found her body? Or maybe he did think it was an intruder? The police think they have he evidence to charge him with murder though.

[Andyregs]

Just seen the news. He knew she was in the house, and 'realised' he had shot her when he went back to the bedroom and she wasn't there. He has a lot of convincing to do to,justify shooting through a bathroom door in the night knowing his girlfriend was in the house.

[Warren]

How do you know there wasn't a motive? Because they haven't told the newspapers every detail? There is a huge amount of evidence yet to be shared I'd imagine, so your whole 'fools mate' nonsense is a bit premature don't you think Sherlock. Or perhaps you should volunteer yourself up to be his lawyer seeing as you have already wrapped the whole case up.

Did he live with his girlfriend? If so then to shoot through a bathroom door because he hears someone is ridiculous. She was also shot in the face through the door. Does that suggest some sort of confrontation/dialogue through the door? He knew the person was behind the door (I'm presuming it wasn't a bathroom the width of the door). Like I said, lots of evidence we have yet to hear. Perhaps there is a history of domestic violence? Perhaps there was an affair? Perhaps they just had an argument and she patronised his disability? Perhaps she had a dictionary in her hand when they found her body? Or maybe he did think it was an intruder? The police think they have he evidence to charge him with murder though.

 

I agree what you say has a lot of plausibility and particularly with the description of witnesses that screaming and shouting were heard coming from the house for quite a time before the incident. A woman in distress may well flee to a room that could be locked to keep him out. That said, I met a guy last year who was running a SAP course I was considering doing. He had a pile of health issues including both legs being amputated below the knee and he was getting round without artificial legs. He had very good upper body strength and was able to climb on to what was really a bar stool from being sat on the floor. Nonetheless he could only get around using mainly his arms and upper body strength. So this raises a couple of points really.

 

I can see therefore that Pistorius would be very handicapped in chasing a burglar and in using a gun to defend himself. He would need to put himself in a position and remain static to shoot. That situation leaves him less mobile and more vulnerable to someone shooting back than a person with lower legs. It also raises the issue that Reeva could just have run away since she was quicker than him if not locked in the house.

 

All of this debate raises another issue - the way in which this bail hearing is being conducted including the substantial presentation of prosecution and defence arguments and the openness to the media and the world. Surely access to all this is compromising the independent mind of future jury members?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

you never fail......his "unfortunate handicap" didn't seem to effect his ability to win an Olympic medal. His handicap will have no effect on his mind. You are offensive as usual. He should be and will be treated the same as anyone else, able bodied or not.

 

PLease though, just for the sake of it explain how his unfortunate handicap would effect his mind in that situation?

 

Oscar himself has stated that he didn't have his legs on and so felt particulalry vulnerable

 

I fail to see how you can possibly think that anyone who found themselves unable to (and this is no pun) run away form danger might not react differently to someone who could

[JOHNNYAITCH]

How do you know there wasn't a motive?

 

He didn't say there isn't a motive he said one hasn't emerged yet..which is true..in the court proceedings seen to date no motive has emerged that we know about

 

Did he live with his girlfriend? If so then to shoot through a bathroom door because he hears someone is ridiculous.

 

But you've made your mind up? How can you criticise Warren for making his mind up and then make your mind up that the above is ridiculous..we don't know everything yet after all do we?