Derby C (A) match thread - 2nd March.

[Hot Rat]

10 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

This may be true, although I think the DoF model takes most of the responsibility away from the coach/manager.  In our own case, the DoF is widely quoted as stipulating the style of play and recruiting players supposedly suited for that style, so just how much influence Crosby had is open to speculation.

Whatever the truth, the main issue is the positions we haven’t filled rather than the positions we have.  I firmly believe that the current squad would be safely out of the relegation zone with Crosby in charge if we had 2 League 1 level strikers and a decent option at LWB/LB. 

Agreed, while its obvious that the talents of Arblaster & Devine and their ability to raise the team performance papered over the absence of proven striker and LB, when we have had a full squad we were able to go on a run which was  curtailed by international call-ups and injuries. Unfortunately we now not only have those positions unfilled but we have a squad so low on confidence some have lost belief, which was evident yesterday. 

I also get that DM has to change things around to try and find a solution but he has made substantial changes to squad and setup in the last 3 games. I'm not sure if injuries are playing a role in this but constant changes on the wings aren't the answer because whoever plays we cannot prevent the opposition peppering our box with crosses. We started ok on tuesday against Fleetwood until Adams half time sub & our triple sub so why not use the successful formula?

I also don't think the teams confidence is is helped by the vocal admission of those loyal Vale fans singing "you're so s**t its only 3" or "we're going down & we don't care". Compare this with Cheltenham fans the week previously for example; ground full and despite going behind twice never gave up singing encouragement. As for those individuals at the back of the stand vandalising seats yesterday, they need to take a long look at themselves and their anger management. they're an embarrassment to their mothers and to Vale. 

[JS Valiant]

11 hours ago, Granville said:

I don't think you understand how football works.

Do this and we're worse off financially, and if you think doing what Crewe does is easy, think again.

Vale got Mickey Adams in, who I know is a thousand Times the Manager Moore is but he soon sorted out the playing side and called a spade a spade.

So you want to watch these set of spineless, gutless, bone idle ,useless ********  Next Season.

I know how Football Works, Supporters want to be entertained and have a Winning Team.

We are financially worse off by having an Owner who is completely out of her depth.

Giving a Sacked Manager a 5 and 1/2 Year Contract.

Having an Assistant Manager.

Having a First Team Lead Coach.

Having a First Team Coach.

Sports Science Staff, Dieticians and how many more staff.

We have never had so many injuries.

Then backing the Man who is the Main Reason why we are in this Mess.

It’s been 2 Seasons of Real Struggle since Promotion and to end up back there. so soon, is a Complete Failure.

We were skint when Mickey Adams got us promoted, Football Knowledge and a Winning Mentality was what he used.

 

[Davebrad]

36 minutes ago, Phil500 said:

Thought this myself a few weeks ago BUT not v Shrewsbury as this is a very important match. One later in the season ( Camebridge?) might be a better option.

I get your point but we've had quiet a few" must wins/got to win" matches, now they are all got to win, but seriously in our last matches in L1, with the team we've got to put out, are we going to get any points... the earlier we show what we feel the sooner we can get something done, ie Reading...

[JS Valiant]

10 hours ago, DazFred said:

I've watched the highlights. How powderpuff is our defending? We don't attack the player with the ball. We don't get goalside,we don't attempt to block shots,we don't follow runners,we allow too much space etc etc.

Earle,Porter would block shots. Tankard,Hill would block crosses. Glover,Aspin would head/kick/block...back off and jockey or intercept.

Forwards would defend from the front. Wide MF would track back. MF would support forwards or track back.

I know it's different times but if you don't do the basics then you are letting the fans down.

In short,what I have seen for 2 seasons as an ST holder (bar around 4 games) has been(I will choose my next words carefully) absolute sh*TE.

I'll send this in a letter to Carol

Completely Agree with your Summing up.

[Sandyford_Lion]

10 hours ago, DazFred said:

I've watched the highlights. How powderpuff is our defending? We don't attack the player with the ball. We don't get goalside,we don't attempt to block shots,we don't follow runners,we allow too much space etc etc.

Earle,Porter would block shots. Tankard,Hill would block crosses. Glover,Aspin would head/kick/block...back off and jockey or intercept.

Forwards would defend from the front. Wide MF would track back. MF would support forwards or track back.

I know it's different times but if you don't do the basics then you are letting the fans down.

In short,what I have seen for 2 seasons as an ST holder (bar around 4 games) has been(I will choose my next words carefully) absolute sh*TE.

I'll send this in a letter to Carol

Agree entirely. What worries to more is that our young academy lads are just as much to blame and i worry if this is how we bring them on. Is it now a game of very little contact. Dont get stuck in.We sit back and take the right position but then stand like statues and let teams play through us. Fleetwood second half was a perfect example. No tackles, no blocks just stand in their way. Surprise surprise, four passes and a bit of movement and they are crossing a ball into our box.

We see the seasoned pro's do this and we may say they are not trying. Hope the youns uns are not guilty of that too. The fact that Smith doesnt even do this the way he has done for years tells me there is more wrong off the pitch than we know about. Or our players really are poor league two standard players ' with no heart and passion '

[Vale1995]

On reflection ive been thinking what a result yesterday was . 3:0 defeat we couldn't of asked for much more. The players gave there all and were unlucky not to get anything. I thought from first 5 minutes we really set our stall out we let them get at us get at us and create a few chances when the first goal went in on 4 minutes i sat back and thought yeah today is going to be our day. From that moment i could only see a easy win from us. The players getting the crowd going because we won a couple of throw ins in their half. THAT IS THE FIGHT I WANT TO SEE!. We dont need to have efforts on goal . Everyone knows the old saying throw ins win you football matches. The fact we didnt have a single striker in our squad with any experience i sat back and thought this is the process that flickers has been talking about i can really see the fruits of his labour now. A squad to be proud of that hes been assembling for four transfer windows since weve been promoted. Whats everyone worried about were going to be absolutely fine.

[Granville]

1 minute ago, JS Valiant said:

Vale got Mickey Adams in, who I know is a thousand Times the Manager Moore is but he soon sorted out the playing side and called a spade a spade.

So you want to watch these set of spineless, gutless, bone idle ,useless ********  Next Season.

I know how Football Works, Supporters want to be entertained and have a Winning Team.

We are financially worse off by having an Owner who is completely out of her depth.

Giving a Sacked Manager a 5 and 1/2 Year Contract.

Having an Assistant Manager.

Having a First Team Lead Coach.

Having a First Team Coach.

Sports Science Staff, Dieticians and how many more staff.

We have never had so many injuries.

Then backing the Man who is the Main Reason why we are in this Mess.

It’s been 2 Seasons of Real Struggle since Promotion and to end up back there. so soon, is a Complete Failure.

We were skint when Mickey Adams got us promoted, Football Knowledge and a Winning Mentality was what he used.

 

You really don't know how football works if you think its just easy to "pay off everyone" and start again.

There are profit and sustainability rules even at this level. Granted they are less stringent than further up the chain, but they still apply.

If you think, paying off the in contract players would mean compensating them for the remainder of their deals, there's what, 14 of them? They will want at least 70% of what they're owed, so I would guess that's roughly 400k.

Where's that coming from? Another director's loan? That's what Carol has actually done via Synectics, that's what the £10m she's paid out so far is - its not out of her bank balance and she is a creditor if the football club goes bust.

Besides, you've actually contradicted yourself, because Micky Adams actually took over the existing squad and made them better, players like Rob Taylor, John McCombe, Lee Collins, Louis Dodd, even Marc Richards, and turned them into a winning side.

I'll grant you investing in a decent manager enabled that, but its absolutely not true to say the existing squad was paid off and got rid of.

[Doha]

They won't, but it's a nice daydream to imagine all these dossers in contract have relegation release clauses.

[Sandyford_Lion]

10 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

At the end of the day, any money available should have been ploughed into the team. Yes, some things had to be done to the stadium to make it safe, but anything else is just window dressing. The coaching room, the ice baths, the endless list of backroom staff are all great to have if you're doing well.

As long as you're paying a player the going rate, he'll get changed in a portakabin.

I understand to some extent to want to improve the commercial side of the business, but spending money on the unnecessary flowery stuff is just a bad plan. Spend every spare penny you have on the first team, which creates success, increased attendances, bigger away followings and everything else that comes with it. Once you achieve success on the pitch, you can do all the vanity projects you want.

We've tried to act like a Championship/Premier league club before actually achieving anything.

The most important thing in a football club is football. Full stop. Not community work, not nice buildings, not Mother's day lunches. Football. Concentrate on it, spend on it and then you can do as many charity/vanity projects as you like.
 

Yes, we spend purely to impress ! How else will a premier league club let their kids move down to Vale without seeing the training facilities, changing rooms, nutrition, fitness, schooling, the whole  ' we will look after your kids ' process. What for ? Done us good for half a season. Two lads done really well and i am sure we played a small part in their progression. In the meantime ??

Dont mind all the community work and help the club can offer. 

[Sandyford_Lion]

10 hours ago, Doha said:

They know better. Apparently.

08/12/23
 

Happy to have lower mid table budget for league one. What has gone wrong then ?

! / Whoever set the budget does not have a clue how much was needed to achieve our aim

2 / Our recruitment team are useless

3 / Whoever spent the budget has completely wasted it

4 / The manager is not very good

[pete vale]

10 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

At the end of the day, any money available should have been ploughed into the team. Yes, some things had to be done to the stadium to make it safe, but anything else is just window dressing. The coaching room, the ice baths, the endless list of backroom staff are all great to have if you're doing well.

As long as you're paying a player the going rate, he'll get changed in a portakabin.

I understand to some extent to want to improve the commercial side of the business, but spending money on the unnecessary flowery stuff is just a bad plan. Spend every spare penny you have on the first team, which creates success, increased attendances, bigger away followings and everything else that comes with it. Once you achieve success on the pitch, you can do all the vanity projects you want.

We've tried to act like a Championship/Premier league club before actually achieving anything.

The most important thing in a football club is football. Full stop. Not community work, not nice buildings, not Mother's day lunches. Football. Concentrate on it, spend on it and then you can do as many charity/vanity projects as you like.
 

A brilliant post this. I have to say and I hate to but have not been impressed with Moore, particularly the waffle in his interviews. It's not his fault but I can see no improvement under him to date. Crosby was the fall-guy, probably after he told them a few home truths - just like many staff in the last twelve months or so who have disappeared (been finished for whatever reason). Worst Port Vale team I can remember - and that is really saying something after 49 years.

[Davebrad]

9 minutes ago, Hot Rat said:

Agreed, while its obvious that the talents of Arblaster & Devine and their ability to raise the team performance papered over the absence of proven striker and LB, when we have had a full squad we were able to go on a run which was  curtailed by international call-ups and injuries. Unfortunately we now not only have those positions unfilled but we have a squad so low on confidence some have lost belief, which was evident yesterday. 

I also get that DM has to change things around to try and find a solution but he has made substantial changes to squad and setup in the last 3 games. I'm not sure if injuries are playing a role in this but constant changes on the wings aren't the answer because whoever plays we cannot prevent the opposition peppering our box with crosses. We started ok on tuesday against Fleetwood until Adams half time sub & our triple sub so why not use the successful formula?

I also don't think the teams confidence is is helped by the vocal admission of those loyal Vale fans singing "you're so s**t its only 3" or "we're going down & we don't care". Compare this with Cheltenham fans the week previously for example; ground full and despite going behind twice never gave up singing encouragement. As for those individuals at the back of the stand vandalising seats yesterday, they need to take a long look at themselves and their anger management. they're an embarrassment to their mothers and to Vale. 

our team has no confidence, and surporters having paid good money reasonably expect a effort from them. but how they've been "playing" these  last few months the team need to smell the coffee. Besides that Cheltenham are fighting and making a good job of it, Fleetwood, we sang and backed the team as we have done home and away, the away following are great, but did they respond...NO.

  I agree about the idiots and the seats, as if we havn't enough problems...

[Sandyford_Lion]

2 hours ago, valeparklife said:

Again, this would just be sensible management, and again, we've done the opposite.

Dipepa, Shorrock, Walters, Lomax should all be on loan at a local non-league club this season - Newcastle Town/Leek Town/Stafford Rangers etc.

Get them used to the men's game, building up their experience.

To be expecting 16 and 17 year olds to save the club from L1 relegation just isn't fair on them.

What a mess.

Our budget dictated we include them in our squad this year.

Carol ' wanted ' it to happen " Look how good our home grown academy really is "

Flitcroft answered Carols prayers. Flitcroft is a saint dint you know

None of our youngsters should be anywhere near our first team squad, especially in league one and expecting, at best, to be just above a relegation dog fight. Plant i would have hoped would be in the first team squad, mainly on the bench getting a few run outs, or even going out on loan for a few months and playing regularly

[JS Valiant]

10 minutes ago, pete vale said:

A brilliant post this. I have to say and I hate to but have not been impressed with Moore, particularly the waffle in his interviews. It's not his fault but I can see no improvement under him to date. Crosby was the fall-guy, probably after he told them a few home truths - just like many staff in the last twelve months or so who have disappeared (been finished for whatever reason). Worst Port Vale team I can remember - and that is really saying something after 49 years.

Well said Mate, I couldn’t agree more 

I have supported them 1963 and this certainly seems as bad as it’s been.

When the Owner won’t face up to facts and listen to the Mouths that feed her, so to speak, then the Ship is sinking without trace.

How can anyone take her Seriously after her saying, last week that the Players are Phenomenal and everything will be fine.

 

[Vtid]

1 hour ago, Brian Johnson said:

2 seasons in a row Ojo's downed tools.

Make's him worse than any other player in the squad and I include Loft in that.

Ojo, get out of our club you bottle jober

Fuk off funso!