Vale Park Atmosphere

[philpvfc]

31 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Phil, it’s the same at every football ground including grounds in the Prem. I’ve been to Anjmfield when the away fans were chanting louder than the home fans, so they turned the tannoy up to YNWA. Sitting separately psychologically takes away the mob mentality and we become individuals.

When the product is right on the pitch then that’ll migrate to the terraces.

Football lacks atmosphere throughout nowadays. Roy Keane summed it up, it’s become a product for the prawn sandwich brigade. There are benefits to making football grounds family friendly but atmosphere certainly isn’t one of them. Add the ridiculous cost for attending, especially in the Premiership, all seater stadiums and the move away from the working class supporters and more towards corporate than you have sterile football stadiums. 
 

On a personal note I rarely enjoy attending football matches nowadays but I grew up attending football in the 80s and 90s where it was more about the experience, isn’t for everyone and I am not suggesting we move towards those atmospheres but I much preferred it.

[JoeB2]

6 minutes ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

On point 3. How have home / away fans been separated? Why can't people still in the Railway that want the banter go down the other end?

And on the other general point about performances improving atmosphere. It was <ovf censored> during the promotion season too.

There aren't many chanters in the Railway anymore. I sat in the Lorne Street yesterday and couldn't believe how empty the 'singing corner' is.

The fans who want the banter are in the Hamil. They can't hear, or be heard, by the away fans.

I thought the atmosphere was alright in the promotion season, but maybe I'm mistaken. Swindon certainly wasn't OVF Censored, and neither was Leyton Orient from memory.

[Playa Amodores]

34 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Football lacks atmosphere throughout nowadays. Roy Keane summed it up, it’s become a product for the prawn sandwich brigade. There are benefits to making football grounds family friendly but atmosphere certainly isn’t one of them. Add the ridiculous cost for attending, especially in the Premiership, all seater stadiums and the move away from the working class supporters and more towards corporate than you have sterile football stadiums. 
 

On a personal note I rarely enjoy attending football matches nowadays but I grew up attending football in the 80s and 90s where it was more about the experience, isn’t for everyone and I am not suggesting we move towards those atmospheres but I much preferred it.

Totally agree, when I go to VP I question myself as to why I’m there. Don’t subscribe to any tv channels, haven’t got a dodgy firestick. So I agree with everything that you say. Probably reflects society where ppl worked together in industrial jobs so were bonded and then went to the game together. At the Michelin on the shop floor there'd be banter between rival fans and chants were started in the workplace 

[smithie]

29 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Several points:

1. Atmosphere decline is a common trend across English football. You see every club say it. The people going to games, and the behaviour at games, aren't the same anymore.

2. We haven't won many games. We've been garbage for 12 months. Wins improve atmosphere

3. Separating the home and away fans as much as possible was a bad move atmosphere-wise. There is now zero goading. They also messily tried to combine it as a family area AND a singing area. One or the other, and keep the two firmly separated.

Combine them together and you get a morgue-like vibe. Best way to solve it is by winning games of professional football.

On point 3, this can't possibly have been unintended. What one might call interaction between home and away fans doesn't fit with the owners' vision of one big "football family". That's all very nice and cuddly but at what cost? 

Carol has funded and overseen many excellent developments but this isn't one of them. 

That bad news is, they're not going to reverse the move - not without pushback from the police who had Smurthwaite on strings with that unnecessary fencing on the Hamil car park. 

[Family Stand Terrier]

2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Port vale became a morgue when we got rid of standing in the Paddock. I used to got Stoke and Vale in the mid 80s and found a better atmosphere at the Vale and despite lower gates there was more of a hard core supporters base that generated a better atmosphere. Seating suits grounds with far bigger attendances than we get and they need to be close to capacity whereby with the old terraces there was no need for this as everyone used to huddle together. 
 

The only way to generate a better atmosphere in Vale Park is to start filling the stands close to capacity or build a new ground more suiting to our numbers. Good luck with anything else.

I was 8 when paddock was converted to seating. Gutted I never got to experience the terracing. Think the family stand opened about 88/89, so I got a season or 2 looking across at it. Used to make the hairs go up on my neck looking at the celebrations that play off promotion season. 

If only there were decent videos of that terrace somewhere. If I had a phone and a you tube channel the sight of it would have earnt me a fortune. Such a shame those days are long gone.

[Family Stand Terrier]

5 minutes ago, smithie said:

On point 3, this can't possibly have been unintended. What one might call interaction between home and away fans doesn't fit with the owners' vision of one big "football family". That's all very nice and cuddly but at what cost? 

Carol has funded and overseen many excellent developments but this isn't one of them. 

That bad news is, they're not going to reverse the move - not without pushback from the police who had Smurthwaite on strings with that unnecessary fencing on the Hamil car park. 

I don't get the need to interact outside the ground, but if fans really wanted to, they still could. Inside the ground, there are still a few that have stayed in the Railway. If they congregated down the Bycars end, I'm sure a few in the Hamil would join them again. 

It doesn't have to mean the death of the Hamil. Like I've said, we used to have a decent section closest to the away fans in the 90s, and in the Bycars too. I went in the Bycars myself with my mates from school. Never stopped singing and had good banter with the Railway. Surely the 2 can co exist again?

 

[philpvfc]

50 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Totally agree, when I go to VP I question myself as to why I’m there. Don’t subscribe to any tv channels, haven’t got a dodgy firestick. So I agree with everything that you say. Probably reflects society where ppl worked together in industrial jobs so were bonded and then went to the game together. At the Michelin on the shop floor there'd be banter between rival fans and chants were started in the workplace 

Attending football matches used to be great way to let off steam. Nowadays you end up more frustrated than before you attended.

[blackdog]

Since all seater stadium, football has become far more gentile, I was in the fan Zone on Tuesday and I thought how sophisticated it was compared to the 70's when it was open season against the visiting fans.

All seater stadium have allowed me to take my boys to the game and now my 9 year old grandson ,but the atmosphere has suffered, a lot of premier league supporters complain about tourist supporters who go to one game just the same as they would go to the theatre or the cinema.

Vale Park is a sprawling ground and with the gates as they are it's going to have to go some to get an atmosphere, having said that the Vale are a boisterous lot, if we were in a smaller more compact ground you would see the difference.

In my opinion, it's not down to the fans to create an atmosphere it's not the fans fault the football is dire and uninspiring, stringing a few convincing wins together and talk of atmosphere will disappear, until then.........On to Friday.

 

[MelbourneValiant]

I was all for the Hamil move, but the way it was done by creating certain sections within it, it was never gonna reach the heights of the atmosphere V Swindon which was spontaneous.

If we could have safe standing then the best place would be the Bycars. It is the most deluded set up on the second 'tier' with a main walkway right in front of the front row of seats. It is a poor view from there and would be improved if this section was safe standing.

Failing a return to the Hamil being an away section then could

The new side of Lorne Street become the away end? Not many teams bring more than 2k, if they do give them some of the Hamil and net it off like at other clubs.

[MelbourneValiant]

2 hours ago, Family Stand Terrier said:

I was 8 when paddock was converted to seating. Gutted I never got to experience the terracing. Think the family stand opened about 88/89, so I got a season or 2 looking across at it. Used to make the hairs go up on my neck looking at the celebrations that play off promotion season. 

If only there were decent videos of that terrace somewhere. If I had a phone and a you tube channel the sight of it would have earnt me a fortune. Such a shame those days are long gone.

I saw a video of Vale's last minute goal v Bolton in 1988, the Paddock was wild with police horses running present. I can only find a short version now. I was 10 in those days and sat on a barrier or hung onto the pylon/girder things and joined in with the celebrations when a goal went in, I used to love those mentals.

Its a strange but enjoyable site watching a crowd go wild.

[Guest]

As someone who has regularly attended 32 years I can safely say that atmosphere is down to performance levels on the pitch .

Not the shift to hamil not anything if players play well they be encouraged to the Hilt if they play lethargically like some members of our football club do then the noise in the ground will be quiet as there's nothing to cheer .

All about the performance it goes hand in hand with atmosphere. 

My lad and nephew ain't really vocal maybe that's how the young ones are today I ain't I'm a absolute non stop barrage of gooarrrrnnn take him on ,do your job etc etc etc but young uns don't seem as passionate. 

UTV 

[Fosse69]

I was all for the Hamil move, but the way it was done by creating certain sections within it, it was never gonna reach the heights of the atmosphere V Swindon which was spontaneous.
If we could have safe standing then the best place would be the Bycars. It is the most deluded set up on the second 'tier' with a main walkway right in front of the front row of seats. It is a poor view from there and would be improved if this section was safe standing.
Failing a return to the Hamil being an away section then could
The new side of Lorne Street become the away end? Not many teams bring more than 2k, if they do give them some of the Hamil and net it off like at other clubs.

Hamil end of Lorne St earmarked as a family area. Can then have children facilities and link to fan zone. Also, it is the opposite end of the ground to the away support.


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[Fosse69]

I saw a video of Vale's last minute goal v Bolton in 1988, the Paddock was wild with police horses running present. I can only find a short version now. I was 10 in those days and sat on a barrier or hung onto the pylon/girder things and joined in with the celebrations when a goal went in, I used to love those mentals.
Its a strange but enjoyable site watching a crowd go wild.

The standing capacity of the Paddock was 12,000. Could make a lot of noise when Vale were attacking.


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[Family Stand Terrier]

All the talk about performance I understand, but there are some clubs where their fans create a brilliant atmosphere regardless. Leeds spring to mind. Their fan cam videos are brilliant from behind the goal that used to be the away end. Even last season when they were relegated they had the best atmosphere in the Prem.

Another clubs fans I'll never forget generating a brilliant atmosphere is Portsmouth around 2000 at Vale. Beat them 2-0 yet they never shut up. Remember leaving the ground delighted with the win but their fans were still going mad after the full time whistle. 

Not many fan bases like that, I know, but Vale fans seem to have this inate expectation that they won't sing unless the team inspires them to. 

[Old School]

The atmosphere is a direct reflection of what is happening on the pitch. You could see this perfectly on Boxing Day, with the Vale in the first half being passive, reactive, non competitive and well, just plain boring. The goals from Barnsley were inevitable and the only atmosphere generated was anti the manager. Cue the second half and quite literally the fans picked up immediately that there was a change, the players were putting themselves about, there was urgency and determination, and boy did the fans respond. I thought that we might even have got a point out of it. Tippy tappy sideways backwards football will never get the fans exited, cheering and singing. Going at it and giving it a go will always get the fans behind the boys.

Over to you Mr Crosby.