FOOTBALL TOPIC !!! Form of some players.....

[SourceOfTheTrent]

I looked for an existing thread to post this in but there doesn't appear to be one - even the Chesterfield post match thread has become a debate / slanging match about the running of the club!! So, I'm starting this thread to discuss FOOTBALL MATTERS, specifically the form of some players.

 

I'm sooooo glad Gannon's gone it's untrue but I fear he's left us with a bit of an unexpected legacy in so much as the current form (last 3-4 games or more) of some players has been well below where it was before Christmas and I think this has had a lot to do with why we won only one of the three recent home games and also lost at Chesterfield yesterday. I was expecting an improvement in personal form across the board on Gannon's departure but it doesn't seem to have happened.

 

I'm particularly concerned at Stuart Tomlinson, Lee Collins, Kris Taylor and Marc Richards.

 

Tomo's kicking seems to be all over the place and he also isn't commanding his area and taking catches as well as he was. He was also a bit in 'no man's land' for the first goal yesterday, although he could hardly be blamed for the goal.

 

Collins really needs to look at his performance on that one, he was so easily beaten to the header at the back post by Lester it was untrue. Watch the tv replay, he hardly made an effort to jump. Why? I honestly thought Collins was going to develop into a really good player but the more this season's progressed the less impressed I've been by him. He's started making fundemental mistakes, like not putting the ball into touch, losing possession and ultimately a goal (eg, Stevenage at home) and has missed crucial tackles on occasion where he didn't used to. Grew and Horsefield need to find out what's up with him and put it right.

 

Kris Taylor is another one who is getting caught defensively and for some reason is making some poor decisions during games. A shining example was yesterday when he took a free kick very quickly, trying to hit a 60 yard ball which was intercepted and instantly put us on the panic defensive. It was ultra ambitious and totally unecessary and turned our advantage to the opposition's advantage. He has the ability to deliver a great ball into the box when coming forward but he often lapses in concentration defensively, something he needs to put right. Just focus on the basics and doing things right, Kris.

 

Finally, Marc Richards. Before Adams came I always thought he was a capable but 'lazy' player who would only put himself out if it suited him. Adams had him sorted, he got much fitter, was a lot sharper and put himself about more. Gannon seemed to keep that going but the minute Gannon got the bullet we've seen the old Richards return, strolling about the pitch waiting for the ball to come to him. He's been like this for the past four games and I get the impression he thinks he's untouchable with Grew and the Horse being in 'temporary charge'. He needs somebody on his case and to know if he doesn't put enough effort in he'll be dropped; an approach that would be unpopular but that I think needs to be taken to get him to earn his wages. He's probably the most capable player at the club but he really does drive me crazy sometimes because I don't think he always gives what he's got.

 

All in all I came away from the ground yesterday feeling that if we hadn't suffered the upset we have since Adams' desertion, or if the club had appointed a better man than Mad Gibbering Jimbo, we'd have got at least a point there because even with the problems we have for long spells we looked quite comfortable without really threatening.

 

Irrelevant of what's going on off the pitch from a football perspective our next managerial appointment is absolutely crucial.

[WV]

What about grews record as well? Is he going to get us competing? Look at his record, people were slating Gannons record at the start of his reign, how has Grew done. 5 pts from 4 games is it? 3 of those home games, 2 of those home games against poor teams in the bottom half.

[Guest RayTab]

What about grews record as well? Is he going to get us competing? Look at his record, people were slating Gannons record at the start of his reign, how has Grew done. 5 pts from 4 games is it? 3 of those home games, 2 of those home games against poor teams in the bottom half.

 

Grew won't be changed untill next season, it's obviously a financial decision if they wanted to they'd have made sounds about Gannons permanent successor by now for sure. So questioning Grews record isn't really going to whip up a frenzy for change there.

[FATBOYSTEVE]

I looked for an existing thread to post this in but there doesn't appear to be one - even the Chesterfield post match thread has become a debate / slanging match about the running of the club!! So, I'm starting this thread to discuss FOOTBALL MATTERS, specifically the form of some players.

 

I'm sooooo glad Gannon's gone it's untrue but I fear he's left us with a bit of an unexpected legacy in so much as the current form (last 3-4 games or more) of some players has been well below where it was before Christmas and I think this has had a lot to do with why we won only one of the three recent home games and also lost at Chesterfield yesterday. I was expecting an improvement in personal form across the board on Gannon's departure but it doesn't seem to have happened.

 

I'm particularly concerned at Stuart Tomlinson, Lee Collins, Kris Taylor and Marc Richards.

 

Tomo's kicking seems to be all over the place and he also isn't commanding his area and taking catches as well as he was. He was also a bit in 'no man's land' for the first goal yesterday, although he could hardly be blamed for the goal.

 

Collins really needs to look at his performance on that one, he was so easily beaten to the header at the back post by Lester it was untrue. Watch the tv replay, he hardly made an effort to jump. Why? I honestly thought Collins was going to develop into a really good player but the more this season's progressed the less impressed I've been by him. He's started making fundemental mistakes, like not putting the ball into touch, losing possession and ultimately a goal (eg, Stevenage at home) and has missed crucial tackles on occasion where he didn't used to. Grew and Horsefield need to find out what's up with him and put it right.

 

Kris Taylor is another one who is getting caught defensively and for some reason is making some poor decisions during games. A shining example was yesterday when he took a free kick very quickly, trying to hit a 60 yard ball which was intercepted and instantly put us on the panic defensive. It was ultra ambitious and totally unecessary and turned our advantage to the opposition's advantage. He has the ability to deliver a great ball into the box when coming forward but he often lapses in concentration defensively, something he needs to put right. Just focus on the basics and doing things right, Kris.

 

Finally, Marc Richards. Before Adams came I always thought he was a capable but 'lazy' player who would only put himself out if it suited him. Adams had him sorted, he got much fitter, was a lot sharper and put himself about more. Gannon seemed to keep that going but the minute Gannon got the bullet we've seen the old Richards return, strolling about the pitch waiting for the ball to come to him. He's been like this for the past four games and I get the impression he thinks he's untouchable with Grew and the Horse being in 'temporary charge'. He needs somebody on his case and to know if he doesn't put enough effort in he'll be dropped; an approach that would be unpopular but that I think needs to be taken to get him to earn his wages. He's probably the most capable player at the club but he really does drive me crazy sometimes because I don't think he always gives what he's got.

 

All in all I came away from the ground yesterday feeling that if we hadn't suffered the upset we have since Adams' desertion, or if the club had appointed a better man than Mad Gibbering Jimbo, we'd have got at least a point there because even with the problems we have for long spells we looked quite comfortable without really threatening.

 

Irrelevant of what's going on off the pitch from a football perspective our next managerial appointment is absolutely crucial.

 

Spot on! a sensible post on OVF - as rare as rocking horse droppings these days. The players are the ones to focus on - its there efforts (or lack of em) that will determine how our season ends. Its pretty obvious some have used the circus goings on around them as an excuse to take there foot off the gas at a crucial time in the season.

 

The managerial appointment is the most crucial thing at the Club - unfortunately V2001 have proven over the years they are w@nk at it. Get someone in to oversee the whole process this time from interveiws to short list to selection (someone who knows something about football).

[Jacko51]

 

Tomo's kicking seems to be all over the place and he also isn't commanding his area and taking catches as well as he was. He was also a bit in 'no man's land' for the first goal yesterday, although he could hardly be blamed for the goal.

 

At the beginning of the season Tomo was making a few handling mistakes and getting away with them. Recently he's not been so lucky. The first goal yesterday was a bit dodgy but I think the failure to cut out the cross and Collins failure to jump were more culpable.

 

I honestly thought Collins was going to develop into a really good player but the more this season's progressed the less impressed I've been by him. He's started making fundemental mistakes, like not putting the ball into touch, losing possession and ultimately a goal (eg, Stevenage at home) and has missed crucial tackles on occasion where he didn't used to. Grew and Horsefield need to find out what's up with him and put it right.

 

I think Lee Collins is suffering like the rest of the team from a lack of confidence and all the palaver with managerial changes. It's no excuse for basic errors though, I agree. I've been generally disappointed with him since Christmas.

 

Kris Taylor is another one who is getting caught defensively and for some reason is making some poor decisions during games. A shining example was yesterday when he took a free kick very quickly, trying to hit a 60 yard ball which was intercepted and instantly put us on the panic defensive. It was ultra ambitious and totally unecessary and turned our advantage to the opposition's advantage. He has the ability to deliver a great ball into the box when coming forward but he often lapses in concentration defensively, something he needs to put right. Just focus on the basics and doing things right, Kris.

 

Kris Taylor produces more offensively than he does defensively. He set up Pope's goal against Hereford and he set up Marc Richards' goal against Lincoln. I agree about his defensive qualities at times though. And your comment about the 60 yard cross field ball - couldn't agree more. We do this far too often - trying to be blooming Beckenbauer when all we end up doing is creating a 50:50 situation - a 10 yard ball to a man moving into space is surely a better bet in most cases.

 

Finally, Marc Richards. Before Adams came I always thought he was a capable but 'lazy' player who would only put himself out if it suited him. Adams had him sorted, he got much fitter, was a lot sharper and put himself about more. Gannon seemed to keep that going but the minute Gannon got the bullet we've seen the old Richards return, strolling about the pitch waiting for the ball to come to him. He's been like this for the past four games and I get the impression he thinks he's untouchable with Grew and the Horse being in 'temporary charge'. He needs somebody on his case and to know if he doesn't put enough effort in he'll be dropped; an approach that would be unpopular but that I think needs to be taken to get him to earn his wages. He's probably the most capable player at the club but he really does drive me crazy sometimes because I don't think he always gives what he's got.

 

Whilst Richards has been poor in recent games I do find it hard to be over-critical of Vale strikers - they live off scraps most of the time with our midfield.

 

Irrelevant of what's going on off the pitch from a football perspective our next managerial appointment is absolutely crucial.

 

Agree 100%.

[Yukon]

I know this is a football topic and I am totally onboard with it but(!) I think the departure of Gannon will force the boards hand. Grew is not a manager- he does a great job as a coach and is a great asset to the club but if he is offered the job (which let's face it, would be purely for fiscal reasons) he is destined to go down the same route as Deano- out of his depth and taking the job for purely selfish reasons. I think when the board look at the situation, they will realise they can not afford to bring the right man in. That is all I will say about the power struggle etc

 

The players are clearly struggling for motivation and it is affecting them. They can not though keep using Gannon as an excuse and need to get a grip- they did it under Micky so they should be able to do it now. I understand that they couldn't do it under the frankly bizarre stewardship of Gannon but the tables have turned. Lee Collins & MArc Richards are the two real criminals at the moment. Both are them are far superior than this league- so is Robbo but the lack of game time is his excuse.

 

I would honestly give the captain's armband to Boom Boom because he is the only one who has consistanly performed since the first game of the season. If all the players had his attitude then we would be champions

[davidatpreston]

A little context is needed when examining Mark Grew's record as (caretaker) manager. The first game, drawn against Hereford, was only a few hours after he took over and there hadn't even been a training session, so it shouldn't be counted.

I also said at the time that anyone examining Gannon's record should not consider him responsible for th defeat at Burnley and even the next couple of bad results as he needed time - after looking to have turned it round v Rotherham and Wycombe, other events ruined things.But that is an aside.

Grew should not be blamed for not beating Hereford in his first game, and had very little time before the Bury game, where the performance was still superb.

Lincoln brought the first proper league comeback of the season and although the first half was dodgy, there were definate signs of good football, fighting spirit and a growing confidence in that game. It was a joy to watch the second half show.

I was also impressed with the way Grew selected the team, dropping Roberts from the starting line-up but using him skilfully as a sub when the time was right.

In fact, Grew's team selection and use of substitutes has so far been better than any Vale manager I can remember - including Rudge and Adams.

Chesterfield - well, they are top, and by far the best team, but just the same I expected a bit more fight and heart after Lincoln. Lets hope it was a combination of tiredness and good opponents, we will see next weekend when the season ends if we don't win.

But so far, Grew gets a B+ grading, promising, and still early days but how he sets the team up and motivates them in the next few days is everything.

I like Mark Grew, I want him to be successful - if we dont end up getting promotion, but he reaches the playoffs and has a good punt at things, then he deserves the job long-term. A lot depends on how much the players respond to him, we can't afford anyone thinking their about their summer holidays yet when there is still a good chance of the play-offs.

We need three home wins, and a result at Torquay, preferably a win but the Torquay game is a must not lose at all costs. I'd settle for going to Barnet knowing that a win would secure a playoff spot and that is what I predict will happen, possibly with the results like this

 

Southend h - win, Torquay a - win, Stockport/Morecambe at home, one win and one draw, Stevenage away - lose. 10 points then Barnet, meaning a total of 70 with one game to go. 73 should just about be enough. The only leeway available in the above is that if we dont win, but get a draw at Torquay then we need to win all 3 home games to get to the 70 from 45 games target.

[Jacko51]

A little context is needed when examining Mark Grew's record as (caretaker) manager. The first game, drawn against Hereford, was only a few hours after he took over and there hadn't even been a training session, so it shouldn't be counted.

I also said at the time that anyone examining Gannon's record should not consider him responsible for th defeat at Burnley and even the next couple of bad results as he needed time - after looking to have turned it round v Rotherham and Wycombe, other events ruined things.But that is an aside.

Grew should not be blamed for not beating Hereford in his first game, and had very little time before the Bury game, where the performance was still superb.

Lincoln brought the first proper league comeback of the season and although the first half was dodgy, there were definate signs of good football, fighting spirit and a growing confidence in that game. It was a joy to watch the second half show.

I was also impressed with the way Grew selected the team, dropping Roberts from the starting line-up but using him skilfully as a sub when the time was right.

In fact, Grew's team selection and use of substitutes has so far been better than any Vale manager I can remember - including Rudge and Adams.

Chesterfield - well, they are top, and by far the best team, but just the same I expected a bit more fight and heart after Lincoln. Lets hope it was a combination of tiredness and good opponents, we will see next weekend when the season ends if we don't win.

But so far, Grew gets a B+ grading, promising, and still early days but how he sets the team up and motivates them in the next few days is everything.

I like Mark Grew, I want him to be successful - if we dont end up getting promotion, but he reaches the playoffs and has a good punt at things, then he deserves the job long-term. A lot depends on how much the players respond to him, we can't afford anyone thinking their about their summer holidays yet when there is still a good chance of the play-offs.

We need three home wins, and a result at Torquay, preferably a win but the Torquay game is a must not lose at all costs. I'd settle for going to Barnet knowing that a win would secure a playoff spot and that is what I predict will happen, possibly with the results like this

 

Southend h - win, Torquay a - win, Stockport/Morecambe at home, one win and one draw, Stevenage away - lose. 10 points then Barnet, meaning a total of 70 with one game to go. 73 should just about be enough. The only leeway available in the above is that if we dont win, but get a draw at Torquay then we need to win all 3 home games to get to the 70 from 45 games target.

 

I think a win at Torquay might be a bit optimistic - they are one of the form teams of the division at the moment.

[Barcroft]

I think M. Richards form has looked shaky since his injury, though you are right to point out that could be due to Adam's departure which occurred at a similar time. I sometimes wonder if he is fully fit. I wonder if he was brought back a little too early though.

 

Tommo recently has gone for the punch or parry way too often, when he could have taken the ball safely in his hands. His punching can be excellent but we are going to start getting less lucky if he carries on. In fact, if teams did their research they would be taking advantage of this by getting player to predict and chase up all second balls (punched clearances, parries, and those where he diverts it towards his feet and catches after letting it bounce).

 

Justin Richards added nothing when he came on yesterday, and despite some good performances from him this season I won't be too sad to see him go to be honest. When he is sat on the bench I never really see him as an ideal replacement, regardless of how bad the other forwards are doing as he isn't a big enough goal threat.

 

Another point; we desperately miss Gareth Owen. The few games when he was back from injury we looked better defensively (and I believe kept the first clean sheet in ages). We definately missed him yesterday. I thought Sutton has slotted in nicely earlier in the season and thinks he deserves a chance if Owen misses the next game.

 

All in all yesterday, and in many games recently we have given the ball away far too easily. Silly rushed passes to opposition feet.

 

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again; the players need to believe that they are as good as (in most cases better than) the other team and stop looking to grind out a victory. The Lincoln game was a classic example - Vale got the second goal and clung on for dear life, as though it was an amazing feat to be beating Lincoln. Yesterday the team played nervously and lacked composure which suggested that they expected to be beaten and viewed themselves as underdogs.

 

If you're reading...you are as good as any other team in this league, but you need to believe it. Don't sit back if we're a goal or two against Southend. Attack is the best form of defence! Micky didn't have you playing above yourselves, you played to the best of your abilities!

 

(PS: I think the reason every thread descends into a slanging match about the politics of the club is because sadly the board are the underlying factor common to all of the club's problems. In this case, the defeatist mentality of the players, and general under-performing which is all too common at Vale lately, even when we win).

[Yukon]

DaP, I appreciate your opinion and am not knocking you, but if Grew gets the job I might actually cry. We want the next Micky Adams, not the next Dean Glover- Danny Wilson is a probably the best we can hope for.

[Twitters]

What about grews record as well? Is he going to get us competing? Look at his record, people were slating Gannons record at the start of his reign, how has Grew done. 5 pts from 4 games is it? 3 of those home games, 2 of those home games against poor teams in the bottom half.

 

Gannon's first 4 games: won 0 drawn 1 lost 3. Grew's first 4 games: won 1 drawn 2 lost 1. In Gannon's first four games we played 2 teams at the bottom and 2 outside the play-offs. In Grews first 4 games we played 2 teams at the bottom and 2 in the top 3.

 

So I think you've made a mess of your point there.

[davidatpreston]

I think a win at Torquay might be a bit optimistic - they are one of the form teams of the division at the moment.

 

It has reached that stage though - I reckon Torquay and Gillingham are the 2 teams we need to overtake if we want 7th place. Chesterfield, Wycombe and Shrewsbury are destined for the top 3 and the only thing that will stop a rampant Accrington is tiredness as they are having to play more games than anyone else - but they have been frighteningly good at home.

I also see Stevenage as certs for at least a play-off place and probably Bury and would write off Rotherham, Oxford and the rest.

All of which leaves one place between ourselves, Gillingham and Torquay - so if we want it, we HAVE to get a result there and not screw up at home.

Of course, it is never that simple but I'd rate our chances of a play off place at about 35-40 per cent - well worth still fighting for, automatic promotion chance now less than 10 per cent sadly.

[davidatpreston]

DaP, I appreciate your opinion and am not knocking you, but if Grew gets the job I might actually cry. We want the next Micky Adams, not the next Dean Glover- Danny Wilson is a probably the best we can hope for.

 

Good to have a range of opinions, but if Grew manages to motivate the players to get to 73 points and a play-off place, and maybe promotion, maybe they would be tears of joy ? It may not happen, and if it doesn't, then I will welcome a new manager from outside too.

But if it comes to an outside appointment, surely whoever makes the decision must not rush it, and must make sure we get a new Adams and not a new Glover or worse still, a new Gannon. A period of reflection at the end of the season is the sensible option - but then again, this is Port Vale.

[1]

We are in a difficult position with the current squad - as we have to axe a capable player to make way for a player who can get us promoted. Its easy to replace terrible players in the summer, but it is much harder to justify ousting favourites. This strategy MUST be undertaken by an experienced, proven manager as it is a massive risk that can backfire very quickly. Players who shuffle along playing passive, average football don't get promoted. With this in mind, I would replace Griff with a goalscoring midfielder. Offload Haldane and 1/2 other wingers to make way for (deep breath) ... someone who can cross the ball well *gasp*. However, another goalscorer would be my top priority.

[Princey]

Torquay away is better for us than at home imo. The way they play will suit us down there just as it didnt suit us up here.. They have only won 50% at home and conceded 22 goals.. I fancy us to win there....

 

Now that the chips are down so to speak, Stockport, Southend and Morecambe at home and Barnet away (hopefully playing for nothing come the last game) then not picking up at least 9 from these 12 means we dont deserve to go up anyway....

 

At least 12 from the above 15 is a must really and a live probability...

 

Stevenage away..Anything there will be a bonus.... But footy being footy we may get 3 there and lose to Stockport !!!