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Transfer rumours, targets & new signings


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Rob's front page article about key summer windows for the Vale really underlines the significance of this summer.

In the same way Summer 16 initiated a decline that very nearly saw us go into non-league, led to fan protests and near liquidation, some of Rudge's windows were the catalysts for a decade of success.

This summer, due to the scale of the rebuild and the new approach to it, has the potential to do the same (in a positive sense).

Clarke and Flitcroft have clearly bet on themselves to deliver something close to that. If it goes belly up, they're both (but especially Clarke) in a sticky situation. 

Edited by Joe B

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6 hours ago, Joe B said:

Rob's front page article about key summer windows for the Vale really underlines the significance of this summer.

In the same way Summer 16 initiated a decline that very nearly saw us go into non-league, led to fan protests and near liquidation, some of Rudge's windows were the catalysts for a decade of success.

This summer, due to the scale of the rebuild and the new approach to it, has the potential to do the same (in a positive sense).

Clarke and Flitcroft have clearly bet on themselves to deliver something close to that. If it goes belly up, they're both (but especially Clarke) in a sticky situation. 

Agree with this post. It did set me wondering about when Rudge did his business in the summer. The only big player I could find signed before July was Tony Naylor. Most of the best summer signings Rudge made were in July and August. The scale of this summers recruitment is way bigger than anything Rudge ever did. Rudge watched a lot of football but waited late because he was always looking for value for money. He still keeps a notebook on players he likes and why when watching games in his top pocket. Even if you mention a player to him he'll jot it down. It wasn't just his knowledge of players he was good at placing a value on their worth within his budget. Not sure we can replicate that this year as we need at least 11 players by the Kidsgrove game.

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I find Amoo, such a frustrating player. I hate it when he has the ball, he’s half way inside the opposition half facing toward the opposition goal with one defender beat and no one behind the defender. Why does he have to try and beat the defender, when all he needs to do is push the ball passed the defender into the hole and the sprint around him. He can gather the ball and cross it or depending on his position can cut in and create a chance for himself.  He isn’t that good at beating a defender and this would improve his assists and goals scored figures. Ainsworth used to do it a lot. Stanley Matthews did it and stated it was the speed over the initial few yards that beat the defender.

Edited by Playa Amodores
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I find Amoo, such a frustrating player. I hate it when he has the ball, he’s half way inside the opposition half facing toward the opposition goal with one defender beat and no one behind the defender. Why does he have to try and beat the defender, when all he needs to do is push the ball passed the defender into the hole and the sprint around him. He can gather the ball and cross it or depending on his position can cut in and create a chance for himself.  He isn’t that good at beating a defender and this would improve his assists and goals scored figures. Ainsworth used to do it a lot. Stanley Matthews did it and stated it was the speed over the initial few yards that beat the defender.
A job for the coaches to improve his worth.

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18 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

A job for the coaches to improve his worth.
 

Fosse, I’d have thought that he could work that out for himself. He wouldn’t be able to do it all the time and once he’d got himself a reputation the opposition would then have to commit two players to marking Amoo, but this would mean another of our players would be unmarked. Out and out wingers are a luxury, but they’ve got to produce the goods. It’s similar to having a really nice car that spends most of its time sitting in my garage and only comes out on the odd occasions 

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1 hour ago, Playa Amodores said:

Fosse, I’d have thought that he could work that out for himself. He wouldn’t be able to do it all the time and once he’d got himself a reputation the opposition would then have to commit two players to marking Amoo, but this would mean another of our players would be unmarked. Out and out wingers are a luxury, but they’ve got to produce the goods. It’s similar to having a really nice car that spends most of its time sitting in my garage and only comes out on the odd occasions 

That is the point of coaches and teachers, why hasn`t it been picked up before? It should not be up to fans to spot it. Some people are self learners others need to be taught various aspects.

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8 hours ago, JRC said:

Agree with this post. It did set me wondering about when Rudge did his business in the summer. The only big player I could find signed before July was Tony Naylor. Most of the best summer signings Rudge made were in July and August. The scale of this summers recruitment is way bigger than anything Rudge ever did. Rudge watched a lot of football but waited late because he was always looking for value for money. He still keeps a notebook on players he likes and why when watching games in his top pocket. Even if you mention a player to him he'll jot it down. It wasn't just his knowledge of players he was good at placing a value on their worth within his budget. Not sure we can replicate that this year as we need at least 11 players by the Kidsgrove game.

I think it was an entirely different time and transfer market in JR's day. He clearly did an unbelievable job but to compare his time with the current one is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. There weren't any transfer windows slamming shut in Rudge's day so he could bring people in later - for instance a lot of them in August/September were players not playing for their club offered a chance to get regular football with Vale. Andy Hill is a good example of that. 

So, as a result, Rudge's signings didn't tend to come in a big batch in the pre-season like they do under the current transfer window.

However, going back to my article - https://www.onevalefan.co.uk/2021/05/five-of-the-best-summer-transfer-business-by-port-vale/ - I was surprised by the quality of Aspo's summer business. But it's not just who you bring in, it's the tactics, coaching, squad balance which was his downfall - however, in terms of transfers, who knows where we would have been without those summer additions by Aspin.

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38 minutes ago, tisdeano said:


If we are going to do the whole academy / youth system properly then we need even more

Exactly. It only seems like "we've got a ton of coaches" because we have been chronically understaffed in that area previously. This is just a normal amount for professional football clubs.

The issue was, under Smurthwaite, why spend £50k on some additional coaching to yield long term benefits, when you can just pocket £50k yourself and go and buy more KFC?

No wonder so many players over the years have gone backwards!

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7 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

I find Amoo, such a frustrating player. I hate it when he has the ball, he’s half way inside the opposition half facing toward the opposition goal with one defender beat and no one behind the defender. Why does he have to try and beat the defender, when all he needs to do is push the ball passed the defender into the hole and the sprint around him. He can gather the ball and cross it or depending on his position can cut in and create a chance for himself.  He isn’t that good at beating a defender and this would improve his assists and goals scored figures. Ainsworth used to do it a lot. Stanley Matthews did it and stated it was the speed over the initial few yards that beat the defender.

Agreed. 

I'm not entirely sure on this one, but I'd imagine Amoo is on a decent wage. I genuinely feel as though there is better out there for similar money. 

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When do we expect the first new signing to be announced? Do people think we will hear something this week or are Vale gonna stay tight lipped & then announce 3 or 4 at once...

You'd think DC would have a fortnights holiday to reenergise so maybe we'll be waiting a while yet...

Interesting times.

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3 hours ago, robf said:

I think it was an entirely different time and transfer market in JR's day. He clearly did an unbelievable job but to compare his time with the current one is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. There weren't any transfer windows slamming shut in Rudge's day so he could bring people in later - for instance a lot of them in August/September were players not playing for their club offered a chance to get regular football with Vale. Andy Hill is a good example of that. 

So, as a result, Rudge's signings didn't tend to come in a big batch in the pre-season like they do under the current transfer window.

However, going back to my article - https://www.onevalefan.co.uk/2021/05/five-of-the-best-summer-transfer-business-by-port-vale/ - I was surprised by the quality of Aspo's summer business. But it's not just who you bring in, it's the tactics, coaching, squad balance which was his downfall - however, in terms of transfers, who knows where we would have been without those summer additions by Aspin.

Some good points. Hill would still have been a window signing as he signed after the second game of the season. A lot of his in season signings were after we had sold players. 2 of the best were Mills and Ford; signed for not a lot with the Andy Jones money. I think there signings coincided with the end of the run of 12 league games without a win (?). I think the basic premise remains that his close season business was often done late because the likes of Foyle, Hill, Aspin etc didn't really see us as a first choice destination. Hill was quite open in his OVF interview that he was hoping for offers from teams like Middlesbrough and Sunderland. Rudge was notoriously slow to spend money. I often wonder what would have happened if he'd got Marcus Bent 6 games earlier, although I've asked the question and he couldn’t because of the Christmas fixtures.

I think more than permanent signings outside what we now call the window was his use of loans. Although Rudge could do that because he deliberately budgeted for it.

The main point of my initial post was there seems to be a belief developing that early recruitment is good and planned whereas late in the window its panic buying. A lot of Rudge's best recruitment was late recruitment.  He tended to have a few targets he thought may be forced to drop a level and be prepared to sit it out while he watched the annual musical chairs nearly finish. In some ways it was even more planned because he'd kept the money available to spend it on the players he actually wanted. When he worked with Pullis they became, possibly, the best at late window recruitment.  There was a lot of scouting and research that went into the annual transfer deadline splurge at the Britt. Where I feel Askey went wrong over Maynard was then panicking into signing Robinson; who I suspect he never rated and hence did his best to avoid playing. Gut reaction is Rudge would have bailed out just a little earlier when most but not all the other targets in his top pocket notebook had nearly all been marked as signed elsewhere. That panic wasn't helped by the length of the Pope ban; which they had thought would be 2 games. Rudgie rarely got his first choice but usually ended up with someone he wanted. I think he kept tabs on Hill for about 12 years before he saw his first realistic opportunity to sign him. To track a player for 12 years and then know when the right time to sign his shows massive planning and wisdom to know the right time to put the plan into action.

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6 minutes ago, ValeForever. said:

When do we expect the first new signing to be announced? Do people think we will hear something this week or are Vale gonna stay tight lipped & then announce 3 or 4 at once...

You'd think DC would have a fortnights holiday to reenergise so maybe we'll be waiting a while yet...

Interesting times.

One would hope Flitcroft and Clarke will stagger their holidays. They must have agreed the targets together.

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  • robf changed the title to Transfer rumours, targets & new signings

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