Jump to content

Taking the knee.


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 290
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

When is this taking the knee crap gonna stop its getting beyond a joke. Who the hell decided that politics should be brought into football. I've been a season ticket holder ever since I left the Army

Do you sit outside the ground?

Couldn't resist seeing the levels of ignorance on here. I watched people racially abuse Exodus, hurling abuse and referencing his ethnicity for not performing well as a player.  I heard the

Posted Images

Just now, Dandy Highwayman said:

Im not racist its about keeping politics out of football. Well by that i mean any politics that i dont agree with. By the way that James McClean should be band and what about that Megan Markle shes got ideas above her station not that im racist like

Had me going for a second there mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with people taking the knee..... or not. It's their choice.

I don't have a problem with people objecting to people taking the knee...... or not..... as long as it's peaceful.  It's their choice.

It does cause a problem when people state "if you dont agree with me you are racist/homophobic/etc/etc/etc."

If you abandon free speech for any cause you lose everything.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if a player doesn’t agree with the BLM political movement you won’t see a player not taking the knee, because of the media outcry where they will then accuse that player of being racist. That’s totally wrong. The way the media work and all these forced agendas on people are totally wrong. 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

Even if a player doesn’t agree with the BLM political movement you won’t see a player not taking the knee, because of the media outcry where they will then accuse that player of being racist. That’s totally wrong. The way the media work and all these forced agendas on people are totally wrong. 

I agree it should be personal choice, because it loses its meaning and power if it’s something you have to do. It’s exactly the same argument I used about wearing the poppy. Unsurprisingly, a lot of the people getting angry at people taking the knee are also the same people getting angry that people choose not to wear a poppy. People will come to their own conclusion why. 
Also from looking at recent games, some teams didn’t take the knee and some did, but the main criticism seemed to be for the booing. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advert:


7 hours ago, geosname said:

I don't have a problem with people taking the knee..... or not. It's their choice.

I don't have a problem with people objecting to people taking the knee...... or not..... as long as it's peaceful.  It's their choice.

It does cause a problem when people state "if you dont agree with me you are racist/homophobic/etc/etc/etc."

If you abandon free speech for any cause you lose everything.

Fair view on things...

What I can’t understand is the level of disagreement this topic is generating.

I can’t abide gambling advertising in football ... no one boos a team that come out wearing it.

Yet this issue which clearly has deep emotional importance to a number of our squad... then some of our fans have decided this is the issue they will boo and make it clear that they are unhappy.

It’s just a funny one that this is the issue that people think they will verbalise their disagreement to such a strong degree.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, geosname said:

Strange comparison 

I agree it is a strange comparison. 
 

Im pushing the original posters view that football should be about football.

He has clearly stated that he doesn’t want “politics involved”... Now wearing the Poppy is different. And I 100% support it.

But Im testing whether it’s ACTUALLY about wanting football to be kept about football. I’d be keen to understand what can be introduced to football? What can’t?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Joe B said:

Couldn't resist seeing the levels of ignorance on here.

I watched people racially abuse Exodus, hurling abuse and referencing his ethnicity for not performing well as a player. 

I heard the Vale fans use a vile racist slur in a game against Bradford, en masse. 

I heard a comment about 'all black players being lazy' on a half-time trip to the toilets in the Railway. I've heard the use of the 'p' word in conversation at the ground. I heard a prospective owner judged on the basis of being 'one of them, a bit thingy'.

If anyone is daft enough to think that racism doesn't exist in the Vale fanbase (and it's not just ours), they're either wilfully ignorant or so racist themselves they don't see the above as an issue. I don't think it's a majority, but it exists. 

If it's reached the point that you're still struggling to see that Black Lives Matter is about ensuring Black Lives Matter as much as other ethnicity's lives then you're choosing not to get it. It is not just about Black Lives; it's that White Lives aren't really in danger from police violence, so the aim is to ensure Black Lives are afforded the same level of security. Even in the UK, with a far better record than the US, black people are the only ethnicity who die in police custody at a higher rate than their proportion of the population (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1122775/deaths-in-police-custody-in-the-uk-2019-by-ethnicity/). 

If you still think it's about some form of 'Black Lives should matter more than the rest', of Port Vale players wanting to establish some form of black superiority, then you've built a cognitive wall and are hiding behind it, refusing to even engage with the truth of the matter as it challenges your misconceptions head on, and you can't handle it. 

If you're conflating a bad tweet from a co-founder of the political organisation that shares BLM's (the grassroots movement) name and therefore think everyone who agrees with the underlying ideas are Marxist, one, you don't know what Marxism is and two, you are choosing an easy excuse for ignorance. Think of it as labelling everyone who is against animal cruelty as sharing the exact same views as the founder of PETA. It's nonsensical. It's not a homogenous group. I guarantee you barely know what Marxism is.

If you think politics has no relation to football you're not really a football fan, and have no real engagement with what the game is all about; the two have been intertwined for decades, almost a century. Do some reading (this should be a good starter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football_and_politics). If you're a 'keep politics out of football' bloke, you're completely missing the point of football as one of the key social institutions, tying together our increasingly fractured society as it has done for generations.

If you think 8 seconds of kneeling, which has no impact on you at all, is getting tedious, you must object to the very principles that the knee stands for (or else why are you getting annoyed about something that's over inside 10 seconds?); a gesture dating back to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, of Martin Luther King and his fight for racial equality.

If you're not bothered, spend 8 seconds scrolling on your phone. It doesn't impact you. Who cares? You demand people protest peacefully, and then demand an end to that peaceful protest as you don't agree with it. You can't riot, and you can't kneel. Be aggrieved in silence, as I can't deal with differing opinions, I'm that hard-set in my ignorance. It's child-like. 

I get people may not be bothered, or may not care, but for people to be so virulently and aggressively opposed to an 8 second kneel, with a sole aim of keeping the issue in public consciousness, is so, so depressing. This is our football team ffs. 

It's a sad, sad time when you feel so out of kilter with your own fanbase. All 11 players knelt today. Our captain is a vocal supporter of the cause. 

I just pray that no Vale fan chooses to boo players of their own team. It will force a very difficult issue, in which I struggle to identify myself as 'Vale', sharing a ground and identity with people who would boo their own players for daring to kneel on an issue they deem important. 

Brilliantly put. 

Im leaving this thread here. Reading the numerous threads that were on this wider topic before genuinely made me sad to see the way some people think about the issue.

This will just go round and round ... no one will change their minds. And I fear a number of people will never understand why they feel the way they do, nor admit it if they do.

I suggest, given the OP’s posting history this thread was set up just to cause friction.

I will leave it to you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PV1973 said:

Even if a player doesn’t agree with the BLM political movement you won’t see a player not taking the knee, because of the media outcry where they will then accuse that player of being racist. That’s totally wrong. The way the media work and all these forced agendas on people are totally wrong. 

This is nonsense.

Vale have barely taken the knee this season. No one has accused them of anything.

You've made up some hypothetical and claimed it's 'totally wrong'. It hasn't happened. You're getting wound by up by something that has never existed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, shian said:

I've been a season ticket holder ever since I left the Army in 1995 and I've NEVER EVER heard a racist remark in all that time, and I'm sure most fans think its time to kick politics out of football.

I’m curious as to what you class as racist. And what you class as acceptable behaviour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advert:


4 minutes ago, Joe B said:

This is nonsense.

Vale have barely taken the knee this season. No one has accused them of anything.

You've made up some hypothetical and claimed it's 'totally wrong'. It hasn't happened. You're getting wound by up by something that has never existed.

I’m not even talking about Vale. Why would I be on about Vale when we don’t do it?

In fact it actually happened in a game somewhere, maybe Germany off the top of my head, a player didn’t take the knee, cue a the media all over it like a rash. The same happened at the formula one when someone didn’t do it. 

Edited by PV1973

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

I’m not even talking about Vale. Why would I be on about Vale when we don’t do it?

In fact it actually happened in a game somewhere, maybe Germany off the top of my head, a player didn’t take the knee, cue a the media all over it like a rash. The same happened at the formula one when someone didn’t do it. 

You mentioned players being labelled racist for not kneeling.

I gave the example that Vale have barely kneeled all season and haven't even labelled racist. Not difficult.

I believe QPR didn't kneel after consultation with their DoF Les Ferdinand. No criticism.

I have no idea which case you're on about, but thousands of players aren't kneeling. If you've got one player, a while back, in Germany that was criticised for not kneeling, your arguments on weak ground.

Edited by Joe B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just been reading about this earlier and the wider view that players should now stop taking the knee. That’s just as bad because it’s all down to individuals and what they want to do. Maybe we should introduce a period of a couple of weeks when people take knees similar to when people wear poppies so it creates a much greater impact? I’m not sure what the answer is. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Joe B said:

You mentioned players being labelled racist for not kneeling.

I gave the example that Vale have barely kneeled all season and haven't even labelled racist. Not difficult.

I believe QPR didn't kneel after consultation with their DoF Les Ferdinand. No criticism.

I have no idea which case you're on about, but thousands of players aren't kneeling. If you've got one player, a while back, in Germany that was criticised for not kneeling, your arguments on weak ground.

No one is doing it in league two anyway so what are you talking about? 
 

The QPR thing was a totally different situation and unique. 
 

I think you don’t understand the point. I’m of the opinion that anyone who disagrees with it “may” be feeling scared of taking a stand in case they get labelled racist. The point is that someone disagreeing with taking the knee probably isn’t even a racist, they just disagree with the movement. But if you can’t see that the media are quick to label people not complying with their agenda then you need to open your eyes to see how the media operate. On a similar theme why do you think celebs feel the need to comment on it or come out and condemn any past actions that may be deemed as inappropriate? Because they are shitscared of the press jumping to conclusions about them and ruining their image. 

Edited by PV1973
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

No one is doing it in league two anyway so what are you talking about? 
 

The QPR thing was a totally different situation and unique. 
 

I think you don’t understand the point. I’m of the opinion that anyone who disagrees with it “may” be feeling scared of taking a stand in case they get labelled racist. The point is that someone disagreeing with taking the knee probably isn’t even a racist, they just disagree with the movement. But if you can’t see that the media are quick to label people not complying with their agenda then you need to open your eyes to see how the media operate. On a similar theme why do you think celebs feel the need to comment on it or come out and condemn any past actions that may be deemed as inappropriate? Because they are shitscared of the press jumping to conclusions about them and ruining their image. 

We literally did it yesterday, and Colchester were booed for it last week? What on earth are you on about? Are you even watching the games?

QPR; not really. They didn't kneel, as many don't and didn't get any criticism for it.

Can you please give me an example of the media criticising a team/players for not kneeling? At present it seems, again, you're inventing something to be outraged about and have no evidence for it.  I can't be bothered engaging with your 'similar theme' as it's got no relation to the matter at hand.

Please provide evidence of a player/team being criticised for not kneeling by the media, or give evidence that players are scared to not kneel, or you're providing unproven assertions and therefore can't be taken seriously. 

Edited by Joe B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advert:


1 minute ago, Joe B said:

We literally did it yesterday, and Colchester were booed for it last week? What on earth are you on about? Are you even watching the games?

QPR; not really. They didn't kneel, as many don't and didn't get any criticism for it.

Can you please give me an example of the media criticising a team/players for not kneeling? I can't be bothered engaging with your 'similar theme' as it's got no relation to the matter at hand.

Please provide evidence of a player/team being criticised for not kneeling, or give evidence that players are scared to not kneel, or you're providing unproven assertions and therefore can't be taken seriously. 

No I didn’t switch it on til 5 minutes in so I missed us doing it. 
 

There was also a cricketer that didn’t do it either, Twitter was all over him and the papers were all over him too after comments to clarify why he didn’t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

Fair view on things...

What I can’t understand is the level of disagreement this topic is generating.

I can’t abide gambling advertising in football ... no one boos a team that come out wearing it.

Yet this issue which clearly has deep emotional importance to a number of our squad... then some of our fans have decided this is the issue they will boo and make it clear that they are unhappy.

It’s just a funny one that this is the issue that people think they will verbalise their disagreement to such a strong degree.

What would you have fans do, that is peaceful, to register their disagreement with players taking the knee?

It's what fans have done in grounds for a long time when something happens they disagree with.... refs decisions, fouls, goals etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

No I didn’t switch it on til 5 minutes in so I missed us doing it. 
 

There was also a cricketer that didn’t do it either, Twitter was all over him and the papers were all over him too after comments to clarify why he didn’t. 

I don't know who that was, but we're on about football in Britain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    Moderators don't read everything. Don't assume we'll spot rule breaking (e.g. personal abuse) - use the orange report button above a post to alert them.

    If you can't get on with another forum user you can select the "ignore" option. Simply click on the link below, type in their username and save - Click here




×
×
  • Create New...