Smurf on the radio

[geosname]

Are you saying the Chairman should do it for free? He puts his money and he will want it back. So what?

 

Which by its very nature is debt

The argument arose from the statement "debt free", if there is debt it cant be debt free... simple

I have not suggested he wouldnt or shouldnt want his money back... I think he may get some but not all his money back but thats a different argument

I have not suggested he should not have done it, although I think he could have avoided doing some of it.

 

If he wants to leave vale debt free when he goes he has to sell both parts together, unless the buyer of the club [football] moves to another ground the club will inherit the cost of rent as a commitment to pay [debt]

[j_grainger10]

This thread needs closing. It's full of utter drivel. People speculating about how the club is financed for no good reason.

I suspect the Chairman will be here for many more years so this picking at him and how the finances are structured is just unnecessary.

[stupers]

It really isn't as simple as Loan = Bad, Capital = good. I wish people would stop making it out to be the case. I've done economics, business and accountancy qualifications. Depending on the situation a loan can be the best option, in others equity can be the best way to go. I've said on other threads, if he puts the money in as equity and the club goes bump, he's liable personally (Or his company is depending on how he does it) for the money he's put in to clear creditors. That'll be 100% the reason he's done it as loans.

 

Now having said all that when he does decide to the sell the club, unless we're in a higher league than we are now, he'll have a decision to make. Whether he wants to sell the club and write off some of his loans, or not sell it. Because nobody is likely to pay him £5-6m for the club in its current status. He may decide then to put interest on his loans to return his money (A catastrophically bad business move) but I doubt it. His record that 'he's never lost money on a business deal' is likely to come to an end with the Vale unless we somehow start flying up the league and find some way of generating large incomes.

 

That's my take on it. He'll either have to lose some money on the club or get us to a position where he can sell us and break even. He's going for the latter at the moment and I'm happy about it. I doubt he'll consider any other options than those two.

[jjvale_03]

Club Shop, Toilets, Floodlights, Pitch. Quality of opposition, number of away fans through the gates. These things are all improvements over where we were when Smurf took over.

 

i) Hoodwinked by Wildes - have paid for it yet?

ii) Give me the old bogs over a flooded portakabin

iii) After threats from the FA

iv) Agreed - hopefully will stand up to the conditions over the next few weeks

v) I go to watch Vale, not the oppo.

vi) A few more, although seating them as far away from any Vale fans means the atmosphere in the ground is way worse than when we were in L2.

[jjvale_03]

Unnecessarily? If the money doesn't get put into the club we would probably end up in administration; only surviving then by selling off our best assets and stripping the team down to the bare bones. Given the fickleness of some fans on here, I would suggest that attendances would fall still further, making it even more difficult to survive on gate income! Is that what you're after?? Unnecessary???

 

As for your ludicrous opening sentence: "He isn't putting money in. He's putting his money in..."

 

Are loans really classed as a debt, because they may not be called in? - I believe Eddie Davies of Bolton wrote off "loans" of around £170 million? So they do not have to be called in / paid back - it's entirely up to the lender, and, usually, at the time of any future sale of the club; or, presumably, if the club started to make money from attendances / cup run / sale of players - none of which, really, could we begrudge Smurf - the alternative to not taking his money is a path we don't want to take again!

 

Personally, I would love the squad to be stripped to its bare bones. 20 decent players instead of 35 chancers please.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

That's my take on it. He'll either have to lose some money on the club or get us to a position where he can sell us and break even. He's going for the latter at the moment and I'm happy about it. I doubt he'll consider any other options than those two.

 

Or find a way to sell but continue to receive considerable income form the club which gets him his money back such as rent on the stadium..it's an option, maybe. No idea if it's one he is considering or has considered or indeed will consider.

 

I guess this has become more of a general discourse on financing, debt etc..it's no longer NS specific as we don't know what the situation is. Interesting none the less..to those of us interested in such things.

[geosname]

It really isn't as simple as Loan = Bad, Capital = good. I wish people would stop making it out to be the case. I've done economics, business and accountancy qualifications. Depending on the situation a loan can be the best option, in others equity can be the best way to go. I've said on other threads, if he puts the money in as equity and the club goes bump, he's liable personally (Or his company is depending on how he does it) for the money he's put in to clear creditors. That'll be 100% the reason he's done it as loans.

 

Now having said all that when he does decide to the sell the club, unless we're in a higher league than we are now, he'll have a decision to make. Whether he wants to sell the club and write off some of his loans, or not sell it. Because nobody is likely to pay him £5-6m for the club in its current status. He may decide then to put interest on his loans to return his money (A catastrophically bad business move) but I doubt it. His record that 'he's never lost money on a business deal' is likely to come to an end with the Vale unless we somehow start flying up the league and find some way of generating large incomes.

 

That's my take on it. He'll either have to lose some money on the club or get us to a position where he can sell us and break even. He's going for the latter at the moment and I'm happy about it. I doubt he'll consider any other options than those two.

 

I didnt suggest it was ... but loan = debt is quite simple, factual and appropriate

[j_grainger10]

Or find a way to sell but continue to receive considerable income form the club which gets him his money back such as rent on the stadium..it's an option. No idea if it's one he is considering or has considered.

 

I guess this has become more of a general discourse on financing, debt etc..it's no longer NS specific as we don't know what the situation is. Interesting none the less.

 

While I don't agree I will take the point that you are genuinely interested. Others on here though are not and will use this subject to pick and find fault. It's the way this forum has operated since V2001.. it's ingrained and it's depressing.

People use the forum as an excuse to say they can exercise their opinion but look at every thread on here.. it's the same people turning the tone into a negative one.

[j_grainger10]

I didnt suggest it was ... but loan = debt is quite simple, factual and appropriate

 

What is your issue then? Are you annoyed we have debt? Are you annoyed Norman is putting in his own money? Are you annoyed we aren't self sufficient? Are you annoyed we aren't generating a profit?

I'm struggling to understand what your actual problem is and why you have taken a thread thats subject was of an informal chat on the radio to these kinds of levels?

[Fosse69]

As for never having made a business loss, he has never owned a football club before. Will have to treat it as hobby money if we do not play where we have never played before, by finding another Graham Taylor.

[geosname]

What is your issue then? Are you annoyed we have debt? Are you annoyed Norman is putting in his own money? Are you annoyed we aren't self sufficient? Are you annoyed we aren't generating a profit?

I'm struggling to understand what your actual problem is and why you have taken a thread thats subject was of an informal chat on the radio to these kinds of levels?

 

None of the above... Im not sure why you think Im annoyed at anything

I disagree with the statement that a loan is not a debt or that the club is debt free if there are loans... its that simple

[j_grainger10]

None of the above... Im not sure why you think Im annoyed at anything

I disagree with the statement that a loan is not a debt or that the club is debt free if there are loans... its that simple

 

Reading through your most recent posts it is quite clear you are annoyed and you generally enjoy picking at anything you deem the Chairman to do wrong.

You stated that if Norman has anything to do with Eagles then he wouldn't sign. You stated that Norman can't get his foot out of his mouth. You have also quite a lot to say on the JFH thread.. again more moaning.

Now you want to try and pick at the finance of the club for whatever reason.

Now you are quite entitled to have a moan if that's what floats your boat but maybe you can explain why? Is he really that bad? Are we really in such a bad mess that you need to continuesly every single day find something else to have a go at.

You can't even be in the slightest bit positive about the two signings. I find it really quite sad and would love to understand your motives.

[SuperValiant1876]

Reading through your most recent posts it is quite clear you are annoyed and you generally enjoy picking at anything you deem the Chairman to do wrong.

You stated that if Norman has anything to do with Eagles then he wouldn't sign. You stated that Norman can't get his foot out of his mouth. You have also quite a lot to say on the JFH thread.. again more moaning.

Now you want to try and pick at the finance of the club for whatever reason.

Now you are quite entitled to have a moan if that's what floats your boat but maybe you can explain why? Is he really that bad? Are we really in such a bad mess that you need to continuesly every single day find something else to have a go at.

You can't even be in the slightest bit positive about the two signings. I find it really quite sad and would love to understand your motives.

 

Any Vale fan that only gets his Vale news from this site is bound to be perpetually miserable.

[geosname]

Reading through your most recent posts it is quite clear you are annoyed and you generally enjoy picking at anything you deem the Chairman to do wrong.

You stated that if Norman has anything to do with Eagles then he wouldn't sign. You stated that Norman can't get his foot out of his mouth. You have also quite a lot to say on the JFH thread.. again more moaning.

Now you want to try and pick at the finance of the club for whatever reason.

Now you are quite entitled to have a moan if that's what floats your boat but maybe you can explain why? Is he really that bad? Are we really in such a bad mess that you need to continuesly every single day find something else to have a go at.

You can't even be in the slightest bit positive about the two signings. I find it really quite sad and would love to understand your motives.

 

I have already explained my attempt at irony

His foot is always in his mouth because he has no idea what PR is, or how to use it but insists on doing it and more often than not makes a mess of it

If you check what I said on the eagles thread you will find something different to what you assume

The JFH thread speaks for its self, smurf made the comments I responded the same as I would to any other racist, not because its smurf, simply because its racist.

Are we really that bad? it depends what you consider bad... declining gates, bloated team signings, poor football, no atmosphere, poor marketing, etc etc etc... its not good.

None of the above makes me annoyed, except perhaps the racist thing which irritates more than annoys, and why should it?

Do you consider it moaning because you dont agree?

 

Is the statement loan = debt correct?

If someone doesnt employ someone because of their colour is that racist?

Those are my "motives"

 

Lets turn it on its head for a moment... imagine you owned Vale... would you employ smurf to do the PR? No matter how well intentioned you may think him to be is he the right man for the job?

 

You shouldnt equate disagreement with annoyance... one doesnt necessarily lead to the other... you may also notice I didnt start the JFH or smurf on the radio threads

[stupers]

I didnt suggest it was ... but loan = debt is quite simple, factual and appropriate

 

Wasn't aimed at you Geo. I agree with you it is debt, but there's good debt and bad debt. People suggesting any debt is bad is misleading.