PVFC Meet delegation of fans regarding current concerns

[Jacko51]

Just now, Emile said:

Do you believe the aim was achieved? Have the club begun to heal the rift between club and fans? I don't see it personally.

I think you should give them more than two days before you judge.

[Nippy Naylor]

24 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

So do you just accept the problem or do you try to turn the ship round?

Or bury your head in the sand ? 

[Jacko51]

1 minute ago, Nippy Naylor said:

Or bury your head in the sand ? 

I would suggest that those doing that are not the folk who had the meeting.

[Emile]

Surely the words 'begin to' relate to something immediately happening? Have they begun to heal the rift? It seems to me that the statement has just maintained the status quo.

Opening dialogue, yep dialogue has been opened.

[Nippy Naylor]

2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I think you should give them more than two days before you judge.

Hopefully give Carol time to sort out a compensation package for Fraudcroft because he's the main reason for the mess we find ourselves in at the moment 👍  # Get him gone 👍

Edited March 7 by Nippy Naylor

[Jacko51]

1 minute ago, Emile said:

Surely the words 'begin to' relate to something immediately happening? Have they begun to heal the rift? It seems to me that the statement has just maintained the status quo.

Opening dialogue, yep dialogue has been opened.

If dialogue has been opening the status quo has not been maintained.

[Doha]

13 hours ago, Dr Delgado said:

All fans are equal but some are more equal than others.

All fans are equally able to stand for election to the supporters club committee.

[Emile]

Just now, Jacko51 said:

If dialogue has been opening the status quo has not been maintained.

Is the rift between fans and club greater, smaller or the same as before?

My answer is the same, if not worse, as fans are frustrated by the lack of communication regarding this meeting, the lack of transparency on what was communicated and the outcomes of the meeting. 

[Jacko51]

Just now, Emile said:

Is the rift between fans and club greater, smaller or the same as before?

My answer is the same, if not worse, as fans are frustrated by the lack of communication regarding this meeting, the lack of transparency on what was communicated and the outcomes of the meeting. 

I would say the rift is probably smaller if the club has actually sat down with fans and listened to their concerns.  As I asked another poster above, what more did you want to know about the meeting?

[ValeForever.]

Just need to vent slightly here, apologies. Just to be very clear, I'm not a huge lover of DF. I understand ppl think he talks waffle & is pulling the wool over Carol's eyes. I understand he's not a particularly 'likeable' guy. He was always on a hiding to nothing when a club legend & fans fave came out & blitzed him publicly upon his arrival. That planted the seed. It went very very quiet though when we instantly got promoted, didn't it.

This for me is yet another clear statement from the club. Well done for getting together with the main supporters groups.

I'm confident that Porter & Dicko et al got their points of view across. Ultimately it's Carol's decision on how to manage poor performance of the football side of things (Flitcroft). If she believes in him, then ultimately we have to respect that view & get on with it. 

I'm not sure what some supporters genuinely expect sometimes. We're not the Dog & Duck. We're a professional football club playing in the 3rd tier of English football (for now). The club shouldn't have to give minute by minute accounts of the goings on behind the scenes. I personally hold the view that a lot of the anger & abuse towards the club & DF is unwarranted. 

DF answered questions recently including covering the January transfer window. That's a fact. If some fans weren't happy with what they heard then that's unfortunate, but ultimately the bloke explained some of the reasons why we didn't do what we should have done. There's been forums (I'm sure there will be another in the summer). Carol has done podcasts, statements. No matter how many times the club engage, or how they engage, it doesn't change anything, because ultimately ppl aren't getting what they're craving, which is DFs head on a plate.

You've got to trust in Carol to make these key decisions. She certainly doesn't help herself at times from a PR perspective but I 100% believe she wants what's best for this football club. If she feels that's to give DF more time to rectify some of his very poor performance, then so be it. If we're honest, he's probably earned more time based on his performance over his full time at the club. He's made massive mistakes, but he's also done some good along the way. & even if Carol did get rid, she's just going to bring another DOF in who some people won't like & will want rid of at the first sign of poor performance. 

We're having a terrible season. Lots of mistakes have been made. Ppl at the club will be dissapointed with their own performances, DF included. As a fan base we really do need to come together & do everything we can to give us a sniff at staying up. It might not be enough, but we're Vale fans aren't we. We have to try.

I genuinely believe in my heart of hearts that good times are ahead of us. Even if we go down this season, I do believe important lessons will have been learned & we will come back stronger. We're all Vale aren't we... let's back them & show some faith. I'm really hopeful of better times ahead. UTV.

 

[Emile]

14 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I would say the rift is probably smaller if the club has actually sat down with fans and listened to their concerns.  As I asked another poster above, what more did you want to know about the meeting?

I think the majority of fans want to know what we discussed regarding DF. I'm sure that Carol won't have said he's getting sacked in the morning so don't worry, but was there any mention of accountability if we were to be relegated? Are they reviewing his work in the transfer windows in the last few months? Is there an understanding that some fans are prepared to give up their season tickets unless this person is removed from the club, and if so, are the club prepared to back DF and lose these fans in the process? 

Fans are looking for transparency and the statement released offers none of it. 

Edited March 7 by Emile

[Family Stand Terrier]

For me the meeting is welcome, but the statement was poor. I wouldn't mind if it was short and sweet and just let fans know dialogue had started and will aim to continue. I wouldn't even mind if it said, fans have been outstanding recently and that support is very much needed in the coming weeks. But to ask fans to stop getting frustrated as it doesn't lift the players...words to that effect, is just asking for a backlash, and that's exactly what it got. A shame really as a positive was turned into a negative by a lazy statement that wasn't very well thought through. 

[lemus the great]

Not being funny like but all the blame can't be laid at flickers door over the lack off strikers signed he has to work within the budget an the club needs to realize strikers come at a premium an won't come for 250 quid a week an half a dozen oatcakes 

[lemus the great]

Signing loft did him no favours though 

[Bede]

I wrote the following account yesterday but decided to sleep on it before posting.  I feel I must now clarify, given the responses since the release of the official statement.

OK, so to first explain how this has come about.  I am the co-founder of the Black & Gold Group, but also current sitting Secretary of the Supporters' Club.  The SC, B&G and NLV have all been interwoven for many years, simply because we are all Vale fans with the same ultimate aims.  We all offer differing viewpoints on things but remain active together to provide a widespread view on situations. B&G have remained active, albeit in the background, for many years, mainly as observers and researchers.  With my SC hat on, we have been increasingly frustrated with everything at the club, same as everyone else.  We therefore requested a committee meeting a couple of months or so ago with the inclusion of Matt Hancock, who has offered himself up to the SC as the conduit between us and the club.  The relationship between SC and club has drifted apart as we feel that the club have not wanted to engage with us, and it seems that they have hijacked events that the SC have traditionally held, on behalf of the fans.  We all feel that the club are trying to control everything.  This meeting was intense.  I'm not slow at coming forward with my views, and neither is Paul Dixon, and Matt got absolute pelters.  To his credit, he took it all very well.  Never argued, never complained, never flounced off or made excuses.  He took it all in.

Following that meeting, Mark Porter, Paul Dixon, and I have remained in constant contact with Matt, intensely pointing out the level of unrest amongst the fanbase.  He could quite easily cease communications with me because I have hardly been complimentary at times, but I have tried to reflect the level of anger, frustration, disappointment, and downright disengagement from the club.  Matt has actively sought to understand all of that.  We then held another meeting with Matt to delve a little deeper into the supporter discontent.  This then led to Matt setting up a meeting with Carol for him relay the mounting concerns to her, with her full attention.  It was then mutually agreed that a meeting should be held between us to face this head on.  During this period, other fans have also been voicing their concerns in their own ways to the club, so we therefore asked them to join in a collaborative effort.

Matt then gave us a list of dates that Carol would be available, and the meeting was set.  At no point were we given a time limit, a limit on numbers of members that could attend, or any actual pre-requisites at all.  All that was asked towards the date looming was a list of names of those attending.  The meeting was initially going to be between us and just Matt Hancock and Carol.  A couple of us then debated the merits of also requesting the attendance of Paddy.  We decided against it, but then as the meeting approached, we were told that Carol would like him to attend.  We ran it by our groups, and it was agreed that he should attend.

So, on Monday evening, we held a meeting between 7pm until just gone 10pm.  The burning topic, of course, was David Flitcroft.  My view remains that I cannot see his position anything other than untenable.  A sentiment held by all of us on our side of the table.  Let's not dress that up any other way. The overwhelming evidence of fans in the ground, fans in the pubs, fans on social media, forums such as this and radio phone-ins, is that very few have remaining faith in our Director of Football.  You must understand that, had we sat down and screamed that Flitcroft is a w***** and he needs to f*** off, a 3-hour meeting would not have lasted 3 minutes.  And we would also be doing a dis-service to the other points that needed addressing.

We went into the meeting well researched, with a formal agenda from which to raise our points.  After lots and lots of debate around the obvious, we then discussed the other topics; those being the communications coming out of the club, the problems with ticketing, the matchday supporter facilities and overall 'experience' and the potential for better fan engagement with the club going forward.  The club seemed surprised at some of the issues raised.  They did admit failings in communication, they also saw a different viewpoint on the other topics that they had not considered.  Above all else, they appeared genuinely shocked and saddened at what we were telling them, in terms of the overall disconnect between fans and club.

Now, we all know that admitting failure, and expressing shock and sadness at things is all well and good, but they need to let their actions do the talking.  We hope that they now understand that loud and clear.  It's over to them to deliver results.

So please let me make it abundantly clear.  We recognise that fans are not happy.  This season, we have seen fans fighting amongst themselves in the stands.  We have seen much anger directed at Flitcroft, at our players for abject performances.  We have seen growing complaints against the disparity of ground improvements.  We have an utterly unworkable relationship between the Supporters' Club and the club.  We have seen an alarming lack of respect shown to us fans by the club, not least by way of Carol's letter, David Flitcroft's Podcast, and the ignorance displayed towards our concerns at the last fans' forum.

We are taking those issues to the club because they all need to be fixed.  Do not think for one moment that we are easily pacified.  But we must be logical.  We cannot just rock up with a list of demands.  There will have to be compromise and understanding from both sides.  The first step in that healing process is to meet and hit the problems head on.  Monday's meeting was exactly that.  We don't have any answers, or results to report back on, from one solitary, intense meeting.  But it is the start of some much needed honest and frank dialogue.  How this pans out is yet to be decided. 

We've been in much worse states.  We have battled to remove two rogue owners in the last 13 or so years.  These owners are not rogue.  But it's fair to say they have misaligned their focus.  Please support us in regaining that.  And please understand our respect for the Shanahan family, despite all our current differences.

We've hopefully now opened doors and we look forward to the club holding much more open dialogue with the wider fanbase.