The definition of insanity.... (and how this relates to Andy Crosby)

[LancyTony]

On 20/12/2023 at 18:01, Warren said:

We lost v Middlesbrough by an unlucky deflection, bad mistake in possession at the back and letting a player come inside and shoot. We were lucky that Balmer didn't gift them more goals before the manager subbed him. 

The stats are we had 39% possession making 4 shots with 1 on target. That's not going to win games. But Middlesbrough need some credit. You could see they had good defenders and showed it in the way they blocked crosses off. They only made one big mistake and it was Massey who just couldn't keep down the hard hit cross reaching out close to the line. 

Middlesbrough dominated possession. 618 passes. What stood out for me watching from Lorne Street was they were technically superior by quite a distance in controlling and manipulating the ball. They also had better player movement in the team to receive the ball in play. They could play quicker than PV in possession because of these factors. 

Middlesbrough were happy to make sure PV didn't harm them and did this by simply keeping possession. But their attacking stats are 10 shots, 5 on target and 3 goals. So they were potent. 

I can't say whether their great superiority is simply better players with more talent. Or whether better coaching plays a significant part. What did strike me, and worry me a bit, is that Walters looked out of his depth when he came on. So the point I'm making is he would improve much quicker and to a higher level at Middlesbrough.

If we are going to keep the players we bringing through and progress as a club we need coaching to be at Championship level. I don't see that presently at team level or individual level. 

 

On 20/12/2023 at 18:09, Devine intervention said:

... the facts speak for themselves worst performing club in league 1 2023....

That is always going to be a flawed statistic to use, as several clubs have only spent part seasons in League 1, being relegated or promoted to a different League, so not knowing how they would have performed with a full season?

[LancyTony]

On 20/12/2023 at 18:22, tommytunstall said:

I cannot disagree with anything in this post Warren. What worries me is that we obviously have a cash problem, certainly going back to Januarys transfer window, if not beyond. 
 

Crosby was the cheap option to replace DC, personally I think we need to replace him, and also bring in key players at LB, LWB and Striker, but because the finance position is certainly no better now, we cannot do this. These are worrying times.

What a load of tosh! Rehashing rumours and conspiracy theories about our finances - we are clearly in a better situation, now, than we were in the summer, having had better income from Cup games than many a recent season. Vale's average home gate in the promotion season 2021/22 was 6103...up to October this season it was 7367.

Crosby's appointment was an obvious one to make - as with players, we are not standing in the way of their personal development.  He felt ready to try his hand at management - no doubt, a cheaper option than an experienced manager - but who would you have brought in? Of those managers without a job, many would have been failures in their last post. The more successful ones, still in a job, would possibly ask for a lot of money to leave their current position? And - let's be honest - as much as appointing AC is, obviously a risk, it is as much of a risk taking on a failed manager, or someone who is happy at their current club.

I've seen recently, a post which, I think, tried to suggest that, because AC didn't play at a good level he probably wouldn't make a good manager? But the likes of Ian Wright, Ian Dowie, Frank Lampard, Alan Shearer, Ossie Ardiles, Alan Pardew and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer...and...arguably...Steve Bruce have never hit the heights they did as players.  Which just goes to prove ANY management appointment can be a risk!

[Aguar61]

6 hours ago, AndyGeorge said:

I don't know, maybe he wanted to measure the gap. Their first goal came off Lowe's back and the second was a bad ball from Ripley, Massey was an inch away. Boro looked very comfortable and Vale didn't sparkle like Saturday. These are small margins though.

Yeah? Grand canyon more than a small margin....

[JoeB2]

One thing that I think has been forgotten is that Crosby and Flitcroft spent all summer banging on about us becoming more physical. We started that way at Barnsley then clocked that Arblaster was too good for League 1 and effectively built the team around him.

We have largely played very unphysical, slow football with 4-5 technical, lightweight midfielders.

Did we recruit for one style and end up playing another, or accidentally recruited for the wrong playing style, or was there no plan in the first place?

Edited December 22, 2023 by JoeB2

[Guitar Ray]

7 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

One thing that I think has been forgotten is that Crosby and Flitcroft spent all summer banging on about us becoming more physical.

We have largely played very unphysical football with 4-5 technical, lightweight midfielders.

Did we recruit for one style and end up playing another, or accidentally recruited for the wrong playing style, or was there no plan in the first place?

Have we been outmuscled that much?  I don’t think so.  We could put a taller stronger side out but it probably wouldn’t be much good starting Uche and Loft up front every week.

What we really lack is a bit of raw pace and athleticism.

[Warren]

30 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Have we been outmuscled that much?  I don’t think so.  We could put a taller stronger side out but it probably wouldn’t be much good starting Uche and Loft up front every week.

What we really lack is a bit of raw pace and athleticism.

I don't think we have been out muscled recently although I thought it was an issue against Derby. I think it's an all pitch issue when it happens and not solved by playing two big guys up front. We didn't lose to Middlesbrough because of this and they started with a fairly big side. However, their defence easily handled our attack except for the Massey chance. Would something bigger have helped. I think not, they were just a better team. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Warren

[fuzzyvalefan]

20 games is a much better indicator of the quality in this league than 18 games. We have got 25pts. Multiply that tally by 46 games we get 58 points which is usually mid table. I suppose it depends on your predisposition and whether you ignore the last two games to alter the facts. 

Well you can prove anything with statistics. 75% of all people know that.

[valiant_593]

14 hours ago, LancyTony said:

What a load of tosh! Rehashing rumours and conspiracy theories about our finances - we are clearly in a better situation, now, than we were in the summer, having had better income from Cup games than many a recent season. Vale's average home gate in the promotion season 2021/22 was 6103...up to October this season it was 7367.

Crosby's appointment was an obvious one to make - as with players, we are not standing in the way of their personal development.  He felt ready to try his hand at management - no doubt, a cheaper option than an experienced manager - but who would you have brought in? Of those managers without a job, many would have been failures in their last post. The more successful ones, still in a job, would possibly ask for a lot of money to leave their current position? And - let's be honest - as much as appointing AC is, obviously a risk, it is as much of a risk taking on a failed manager, or someone who is happy at their current club.

I've seen recently, a post which, I think, tried to suggest that, because AC didn't play at a good level he probably wouldn't make a good manager? But the likes of Ian Wright, Ian Dowie, Frank Lampard, Alan Shearer, Ossie Ardiles, Alan Pardew and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer...and...arguably...Steve Bruce have never hit the heights they did as players.  Which just goes to prove ANY management appointment can be a risk!

Every manager that is out of work will have had a poor recent experience but that Dosent mean they are a bad manger and certainly Dosent mean we shouldn’t even bother bloody interviewing for one!! Crosby was the obvious choice but not the right choice. He was and is the cheap option which we seem to be taking quite often now. 
There is a lot of extremely successful managers out of work and a lot achieving nothing in work. And visa versa. There is a large choice of managers available but clearly we wouldn’t know that as we didn’t bother interviewing. 

I didn’t know the idea of port vale was to make sure we didn’t stand in the way of Andy Crosbys personal development…..

[valiant_593]

19 hours ago, smithie said:

If we accumulate another 10 points by the end of January l can see the logic in holding off splashing the cash. 

I honestly don't see any team needing 50 points to stay up this season.

Very risky given what happened last season and only worth doing if we actually spend that cash in the summer. 

 

18 hours ago, AndyGeorge said:

I don't know, maybe he wanted to measure the gap. Their first goal came off Lowe's back and the second was a bad ball from Ripley, Massey was an inch away. Boro looked very comfortable and Vale didn't sparkle like Saturday. These are small margins though.

Just a time to test the gap in the clubs first ever league cup quarter final! Easiest cup game Boro will ever have 

[AndyGeorge]

On 22/12/2023 at 21:06, Aguar61 said:

Yeah? Grand canyon more than a small margin....

Yeah, Championship to League 1

[AndyGeorge]

17 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

Very risky given what happened last season and only worth doing if we actually spend that cash in the summer. 

 

Just a time to test the gap in the clubs first ever league cup quarter final! Easiest cup game Boro will ever have 

Yep, after beating Fleetwood, Crewe & Sutton you'd think Boro would be a walk in the park eh?