IMO Teams should be relegated if they go into admin

[1977Valiant]

If you don't like it then go and support Macc Town as you seem to prefer them anyway.

 

Afterall we haven't overspent on players or paid the biggest wages to players, we have just been run into the ground by a bunch of crooks who are only interested in themselves by paying themselves extortionate wages.

 

It's the real supporters that always suffer when a club goes into Admin so why punish them even more, when the people who have mismanaged the club are long gone and are not accountable to anyone. If anyone should be made to pay it should not be the club but the idiots who mismanaged it in the first place.

[Yukon]

Clearly not a Vale fan.

 

Indeed, which is why I won't rise to it but will debate the point, just for ****s & giggles.

 

I think there is a certain element of truth to the OP's point, but in the case of Port Vale I don't think it's relevant. In my opinion the team has not benefited from the financial mismanagement which has caused our plight. We do not have a massive playing budget and we do not pay massive transfer fee's- in fact we are distinctly average for a club of our size, in the league position we find ourselves in. If for example, and I'm not saying they are the only one's, Crawley were to go into admin, it is because they have a big squad of players grossly over paid for a club of their means.

 

In Vale's case, the problems have been caused by the custodians of the club chasing pipe dreams, signing ridiculous deals and not accepting investment/ committing finances themselves. As has been said above, it is those in control that have caused the problems and allegedly benefited, whilst the team has declined greatly.

 

Put it in these terms, would with the budget that we have for the playing side, we be any better off than we are now? Would we be in League 1/ the Championship with our wage structure & transfer policy? I think the answer to both questions is no.

 

My point is, if the team has benefited with Portmouth being the prime example- how much were they paying Muntari, Utaka, James etc, then maybe there should be sterner action. (I don't like picking on Pompey when they're in so much strife, but they are a perfect example of living ahead of your means)

[Ben]

Teams like Macclesfield and Hereford, own their own ground, no debts and every year they are fighting to retain their football league status.

 

Meanwhile other clubs will; build up debts, pay transfer fees, pay players far too much. Just to have a chance at being successful because of the pressure of their fans.

 

It's just not fair!!!

 

This is why, I think teams should be relegated for going into administration. 10 point deduction is not enough. There needs to be a bigger punishment for going into admin.

 

Why should the fans and players of the clubs suffer for the incompetance of people who think they can run a buisness and fail.

Its the directors who should take the brunt.

[chefchenko]

Aren't Macclesfield propped up by some foreign businessman? Lets be honest it's not their fanbase that keeps them going.

 

Harsher punishments for administration fair enough but until the Football League actually have a robust "fit and proper person test" it's not going to be a deterrent. Do you think Miller, Deakin, Lloyd etc give a flying **** if we're relegated or not? People like them just walk away and let the innocent victims in this pick up the pieces.

 

The original poster does have a point to be fair..im a vale fan but i also see the other side of the coin as i work for macc town!! macc has no debt,no benefactor as glp states,its just run properly,minimal staff who work there butts off,it does seem unfair that we can do it yet clubs like my beloved vale and plymouth etc cant !!! as for clubs like pompey and rangers.......... where do you start

[old sage]

[quote=Volcano

 

This is why, I think teams should be relegated for going into administration.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong. It just needs the directors being castigated![/quote Yes the fans shouldn't suffer for the directors incompetance and wrong doings.

[BIRCHES HEAD WHITES]

Teams like Macclesfield and Hereford, own their own ground, no debts and every year they are fighting to retain their football league status.

 

Meanwhile other clubs will; build up debts, pay transfer fees, pay players far too much. Just to have a chance at being successful because of the pressure of their fans.

 

It's just not fair!!!

 

This is why, I think teams should be relegated for going into administration. 10 point deduction is not enough. There needs to be a bigger punishment for going into admin.

 

i agree

 

however if this is your attempt at putting port vale into the category of "dream chasing" you are wrong and out of order.

 

portsmouth paid highly inflated wages to numbers of players over a short space of time which saw them reach the premier league and also play in europe. when relegated from the premier league they continued to pay ridiculous wages in their attempt to get back to the promised land. whilst i feel very sorry for their fans and they have been mismanaged , they chased a dream.

 

rangers , well yet again they paid crazy wages this time over a number of years to try and buy glory . they got it to a degree. championships , cups and forays into europe every season. it caught up with them though . again it is the fans who suffer and i feel for them as they are the innocent party. however mismanagement by dream chasing is their downfall.

 

now vale , well what can we say ? for 9 years we have been led a merry dance by two different boards . they promised to find us investment which never came. when it showed potential they pushed it away. we sold our best players or lost them for free. we replaced them with hand me downs , has beens and castaways. our wage bill got slashed . our crowds fell . we employed one bad manager after the next . during this time directors drew wages, perks were common practice and loans were taken out to plug the the investment black hole. vale chased no dreams . there were no big money signings . no massive wages. just a steady decline over 9 years during which time we were humbled by non leaguers many times and ripped to bite by our peers. when you have no business acumen and no business plan failure is bound to happen .

 

if vale had chased the dream as teams like portsmouth and rangers at some point over the last 9 years we may have enjoyed ourselves at some point just like they had done with promotion , championships , cup triumphs and european nights. we saw none of this . we just chased our way to oblivion and i have hated every minute of the last 9 years.

 

YOU MY FRIEND IN VALES CASE ARE WRONG

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I suggested to Glenda on here some time ago that Directors should put up a bond and if the club goes into admin that is they should lose it immediately; this on top of any punishment for the club. This controlled by the PL/FL/FA

 

You can imagine the kind, polite and completely non-patronising response that I got from him. Although he couldn't actually present an argument against it.

 

It's shocking that a board can make disastrous and downright wrong decisions then leave and virtually go unounished when the club falls into admin

[JOHNNYAITCH]

i agree

 

however if this is your attempt at putting port vale into the category of "dream chasing" you are wrong and out of order.

 

portsmouth paid highly inflated wages to numbers of players over a short space of time which saw them reach the premier league and also play in europe. when relegated from the premier league they continued to pay ridiculous wages in their attempt to get back to the promised land. whilst i feel very sorry for their fans and they have been mismanaged , they chased a dream.

 

rangers , well yet again they paid crazy wages this time over a number of years to try and buy glory . they got it to a degree. championships , cups and forays into europe every season. it caught up with them though . again it is the fans who suffer and i feel for them as they are the innocent party. however mismanagement by dream chasing is their downfall.

 

now vale , well what can we say ? for 9 years we have been led a merry dance by two different boards . they promised to find us investment which never came. when it showed potential they pushed it away. we sold our best players or lost them for free. we replaced them with hand me downs , has beens and castaways. our wage bill got slashed . our crowds fell . we employed one bad manager after the next . during this time directors drew wages, perks were common practice and loans were taken out to plug the the investment black hole. vale chased no dreams . there were no big money signings . no massive wages. just a steady decline over 9 years during which time we were humbled by non leaguers many times and ripped to bite by our peers. when you have no business acumen and no business plan failure is bound to happen .

 

if vale had chased the dream as teams like portsmouth and rangers at some point over the last 9 years we may have enjoyed ourselves at some point just like they had done with promotion , championships , cup triumphs and european nights. we saw none of this . we just chased our way to oblivion and i have hated every minute of the last 9 years.

 

YOU MY FRIEND IN VALES CASE ARE WRONG

 

You are right, it's bonkers to compare Vale with others as during this period Vale have slipped DOWN the leagues and sold off our best players. Portsmouth and others definitely did not cut their cloth accordingly whereas Vale did. This is about a failing board of directors and not living beyond our means to atain unsustainabale success.

 

WRONG!!

[Yukon]

i agree

 

however if this is your attempt at putting port vale into the category of "dream chasing" you are wrong and out of order.

 

portsmouth paid highly inflated wages to numbers of players over a short space of time which saw them reach the premier league and also play in europe. when relegated from the premier league they continued to pay ridiculous wages in their attempt to get back to the promised land. whilst i feel very sorry for their fans and they have been mismanaged , they chased a dream.

 

rangers , well yet again they paid crazy wages this time over a number of years to try and buy glory . they got it to a degree. championships , cups and forays into europe every season. it caught up with them though . again it is the fans who suffer and i feel for them as they are the innocent party. however mismanagement by dream chasing is their downfall.

 

now vale , well what can we say ? for 9 years we have been led a merry dance by two different boards . they promised to find us investment which never came. when it showed potential they pushed it away. we sold our best players or lost them for free. we replaced them with hand me downs , has beens and castaways. our wage bill got slashed . our crowds fell . we employed one bad manager after the next . during this time directors drew wages, perks were common practice and loans were taken out to plug the the investment black hole. vale chased no dreams . there were no big money signings . no massive wages. just a steady decline over 9 years during which time we were humbled by non leaguers many times and ripped to bite by our peers. when you have no business acumen and no business plan failure is bound to happen .

 

if vale had chased the dream as teams like portsmouth and rangers at some point over the last 9 years we may have enjoyed ourselves at some point just like they had done with promotion , championships , cup triumphs and european nights. we saw none of this . we just chased our way to oblivion and i have hated every minute of the last 9 years.

 

YOU MY FRIEND IN VALES CASE ARE WRONG

 

I should do you for intellectual property theft!

[BIRCHES HEAD WHITES]

I should do you for intellectual property theft!

 

yukon, if i have duplicated some of your thoughts i will not apologise as i did not get past the op on the thread . these have been my thoughts for a long time in ref to our chase to oblivion.

 

yukon, they say that great minds think alike ?

[KEV.WILLIE]

The OP has a point though? Not sure about relegation but harsher punishments for repeat offenders should be brought in.

 

Take the case of Leicester City, in 2002 they cleared a £50m debt by going into admin, avoiding £6m in tax and £5k to St Johns Ambulance amongst others.

 

Fastforward 10 years, have they learned their lesson? Leicester recently declared a debt of £46m for 2011, built on a £15.2m loss, up from 2010's £7.5m: a staff cost to turnover ratio of 95.5% (shocking!!!!) and £28m owed to parent company Asia Football Investments (AFI) on whom the club "relies and continues to rely" to remain a "going concern".

(£25-6m additional borrowing from AFI in the new financial year.)

 

Now I know this is slightly different to the Vale situation and I'm not blaming the fans in anyway but if Leicester City go into administration tomorrow, lose 10 points but stay up comfortably you could argue where is the deterrent?

 

This is i no way a dig at TP,

 

It could be argued that 90% of football clubs are not viable busineses,

for instance if Peter Coates pulled out of SCFC, could they sustain their wage bill, if the backers at Spurs pulled out could they, if Roman pulled out of Chelsea........ the list goes on Crawley etc.. so I dont think Portsmouth, Leicester et al are much different, its just the levels IMO

 

The board at Vale have quite clearly been totally incompetent, they could have had investment which may/not have put them on a better finacial footing.

[Yukon]

yukon, if i have duplicated some of your thoughts i will not apologise as i did not get past the op on the thread . these have been my thoughts for a long time in ref to our chase to oblivion.

 

yukon, they say that great minds think alike ?

 

 

I was joking! I don't think I got much past the OP either

[dave8509]

Teams like Macclesfield and Hereford, own their own ground, no debts and every year they are fighting to retain their football league status.

 

Meanwhile other clubs will; build up debts, pay transfer fees, pay players far too much. Just to have a chance at being successful because of the pressure of their fans.

 

It's just not fair!!!

 

This is why, I think teams should be relegated for going into administration. 10 point deduction is not enough. There needs to be a bigger punishment for going into admin.

 

Well I think the opposite, Teams should not be penalised but Directors and officers of companies should especialy if bad practice and sculdugery are found.

But a penalty to the Club in some cases caused because of the finacial climate are punishing the fans who are Almost never to blame.

The plight of the Vale and others showcases the imbalace in the gam today with in some cases players and managers earning enought in a few weeks to pay all the Vales debts.

The FA should ensure the smaller clubs get a larger share of the pot when distributing cash etc.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Well I think the opposite, Teams should not be penalised but Directors and officers of companies should especialy if bad practice and sculdugery are found.

.

 

Totally agree...let them put up a substantial amount of cash as a bond that they lose if the club goes into admin..and somehow apply this retrospectively if the administrator finds a departed board member responsible.

 

Minimum 100K..that would give them an incentive not to try to 'live the dream' at the club's/fan's expense

[Volcano]

I see Gus Poyet must think like me

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11688/7579087/?ref=nf