General Election 2017 pt 2

[davidatpreston]

Your PM was a rambling mess of a post which was completely irrelevant. You called me a racist and refused to back it up and you sent me a massive PM about how Robbie Earles Perm was having a go at you so you called me a racist? I still don't understand it David, it's madness, but you didn't reply again did you?

 

I retracted the racist bit, said I would not call you it again and haven't. It was not related to REP - it was related to something you had said. Remember that I sent a copy to Barry (Aussie Rules) so Im afraid there is evidence of what I said - and as you did not reply to my pm, what was I supposed to 'reply again' to ? Sorry, but the madness is all yours.

 

Whatever, Davids fantasy world is not worth my time.Good, please feel free to put me on ignore. I don't think a single sensible person will read my post and draw the same twisted fantasy conclusion as you David, It took just a few minutes for Supervaliant to post and show you were wrong and what an ordeal he had to go through, so that's wrong for a start

 

 

that I somehow think disabled people are lucky to have any benefits at all.

 

Always the same, subtle but crucial added words or changes that completely change the meaning. I never said at all' and nor did you - you just said 'lucky to get benefits' and are damned by your own proven and recorded words, so do not attempt to craftily alter the whole meaning. .[/

 

 

You are an absolute joke of a poster on this website, you invent things constantly to be offended by. I could say anything on any subject and you would twist it into an attack on [insert any minority here]whilst at the same time promoting your views that black people are victims and that you hope I get a serious illness sooner rather than later. You need to look in the mirror.

 

Im not going to add to your personal insults, but you provoke people deliberately and it would not have been necessary for me to make remarks about you finding out how unpleasant the disabled process is if you had not been so vile in your own initial remarks.

Perhaps you would also tell us which are the disability conditions you say people are 'lucky to get benefits for', though I doubt we will get a proper answer on this.

 

. . ...... ...

[geosname]

. . . ...... . ..

 

Lies are lies david... some people say white lies dont count but they are still lies... its not the truth

Whether its sitting on the floor or money to the NHS its a lie.

ALL politicians lie... even the ones we like and/or support

[Regal Beagle]

. . ...... ...

 

Another atrocious post from deluded Dave.

 

I've got zero to hide and zero to apologize for...

 

Take my words literally, without context if you want..."They're lucky enough to be able to claim benefits for particular disabilities"

 

What exactly is evil about that sentence?

And what 'hate crimes' am I inciting?

 

 

And feel free to post the PMs Though I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't need any more evidence of bizarre rants from you.

[davidatpreston]

Lies are lies david... some people say white lies dont count but they are still lies... its not the truth

Whether its sitting on the floor or money to the NHS its a lie.

ALL politicians lie... even the ones we like and/or support

 

So if lies are lies.... then if I say 'I never break the speed limit' its just as bad as somone denying the holocaust took place, or the South AFrican leader denying AIDS existed and letting a million of his people die, or Trump denying climate change........... come on Geo, you know the intensity of the lie and the damage it does IS important.

 

All POEOPLE lie, not just all politicians, its just that some don't do damage with their lies.

[geosname]

From a holistic view people who receive benefits in the UK are lucky.

Not every country pays out, not every country pays the amount [in comparative terms]

There is a "state" pension scheme in thailand

600Bht at 60 [£14 at todays exchange rate]

700Bht at 70 [£16.28]

and so on... thats per month... the cost of living is lower here... but not that low.

There is also a health system... people with appointments usually start arriving at the hospital from about 5.00am and some sleep in the grounds because they havent been seen that day.

Its a slightly distorted comparison because the tax rates and vat rates are lower and people pay into the system directly.

So lucky to be claiming... no... lucky to be claiming in the UK as opposed to other countries... definitely.

[davidatpreston]

Another atrocious post from deluded Dave.

 

I've got zero to hide and zero to apologize for...

 

Take my words literally, without context if you want..."They're lucky enough to be able to claim benefits for particular disabilities"

 

What exactly is evil about that sentence?

And what 'hate crimes' am I inciting?

 

 

And feel free to post the PMs Though I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't need any more evidence of bizarre rants from you.

 

 

 

You are by those words, implying very strongly that some people do not deserve benefits and this leads to disability hate, I've seen it, heard it and experienced it, and either you are nieve if you think it does not exist (even if only 1 person in 100 that is ruly frightening) and there are is proof here -

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/prosecutions-for-hate-crimes-against-disabled-people-surge-by-mo/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disability-hate-crime-convictions-surge-by-40-per-cent-a7232576.html

 

You may choose to disagree with these reports, but the facts are there from both the right-wing Telegraph and the left/centre Independent, and some of the individual cases and crimes are truly horrendous.

 

That is why I felt provoked enough to say you will not see sense until you are unfortunate enough to have to experience it yourself.

 

Nothing unclear or for you not to understand there, that old chestnut can only be used so many times. Or is it time for a glib one - liner ? Prove your point and tell me what you think of those reports, I have answered you in detail and totally rationally.

 

ps You still failed to answer 'which disabilities' you refer to in your quoted remark - or are you unable to answer that too ?

[davidatpreston]

From a holistic view people who receive benefits in the UK are lucky.

Not every country pays out, not every country pays the amount [in comparative terms]

There is a "state" pension scheme in thailand

600Bht at 60 [£14 at todays exchange rate]

700Bht at 70 [£16.28]

and so on... thats per month... the cost of living is lower here... but not that low.

There is also a health system... people with appointments usually start arriving at the hospital from about 5.00am and some sleep in the grounds because they havent been seen that day.

Its a slightly distorted comparison because the tax rates and vat rates are lower and people pay into the system directly.

So lucky to be claiming... no... lucky to be claiming in the UK as opposed to other countries... definitely.

 

Finally, the truth. That we are indeed lucky to live in what is about the 5th (I think) richest country in the world, and one that should and can look after its people who are less fortunate, and can EASILY afford to.

One would hope that other countries will be able to look after their people as they develop, but similar countries to the UK in culture and prosperity - countries like Holland, France, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Canada, Norway, Luxembourg - don't have a problem with looking after their unfortunately disabled people.

Thailand is not yet developed to the same extent, but with respect Geo you made it your choice to live there part of the time, and told us you spend a similar amount of time in Spain - what is the position there ?

 

You also said (maybe jokingly, te internet does not allow us to know) that you were , shall we say, not financially challenged - well good for you, but it does make a difference compared to people who may not be able to pay their rent or eat proper meals if they do not get their proper and deserved disability or other benefits.

[Regal Beagle]

You are by those words, implying very strongly that some people do not deserve benefits and this leads to disability hate, I've seen it, heard it and experienced it, and either you are nieve if you think it does not exist (even if only 1 person in 100 that is ruly frightening) and there are is proof here -

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/prosecutions-for-hate-crimes-against-disabled-people-surge-by-mo/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disability-hate-crime-convictions-surge-by-40-per-cent-a7232576.html

 

You may choose to disagree with these reports, but the facts are there from both the right-wing Telegraph and the left/centre Independent, and some of the individual cases and crimes are truly horrendous.

 

That is why I felt provoked enough to say you will not see sense until you are unfortunate enough to have to experience it yourself.

 

Nothing unclear or for you not to understand there, that old chestnut can only be used so many times. Or is it time for a glib one - liner ? Prove your point and tell me what you think of those reports, I have answered you in detail and totally rationally.

 

ps You still failed to answer 'which disabilities' you refer to in your quoted remark - or are you unable to answer that too ?

 

Well, I wasn't implying that some people don't deserve benefits (though that is a statement that I agree with) and I was in fact saying that disabled people are lucky to have access to the social system available in this country. Like I've already said.

 

Now, 'some people don't deserve benefits' yes - I agree - those that are fit to work but abuse the system. They're taking vital resources that could be spent on more comprehensive care for those that need it. I'm sorry if that is an evil thing to say.

 

What I am absolutely NOT saying (or implying, or anything else) is that disabled people don't deserve benefits. I can't believe I'm even having to say that.

 

And I still don't understand how I'm inciting any crime, although I notice you've conveniently dropped the word crime from your last post.

 

I'm not picking out any disabilities over another. Obviously some require more specialist care than others, some people require a little bit of help, some people require round the clock help.

[geosname]

important.

 

All POEOPLE lie, not just all politicians, its just that some don't do damage with their lies.

 

I agree the damage is the important thing but and its a sizeable but its still a lie and it makes taking what they say on face value difficult.

Whether a certain dress makes my wifes ass look big or not is immaterial to anyone except the two of us.

When a politician lies if has a much wider scope and effects many things and many people... especially when that politician is asking for your trust and belief... whether you class the lie as a small or big one... he/she is specifically asking for your trust and lying to get it.

A lie is a lie ... the effects may vary depending on who is telling it.

[davidatpreston]

A very important result from DARLINGTON, held by Labour.

But the picture is very sketchy, majority on a knife-edge, could be anything from a minority Tory government (up to 10 short) to a majority of 50, likely to be around 20-30 majority and definitely NOT the landslide vampira wanted.

[davidatpreston]

I agree the damage is the important thing but and its a sizeable but its still a lie and it makes taking what they say on face value difficult.

Whether a certain dress makes my wifes ass look big or not is immaterial to anyone except the two of us.

When a politician lies if has a much wider scope and effects many things and many people... especially when that politician is asking for your trust and belief... whether you class the lie as a small or big one... he/she is specifically asking for your trust and lying to get it.

A lie is a lie ... the effects may vary depending on who is telling it.

 

If you were to add 'and what the lie is about and its implications' to the end of the last sentence we might magically agree for once.

[Regal Beagle]

A very important result from DARLINGTON, held by Labour.

But the picture is very sketchy, majority on a knife-edge, could be anything from a minority Tory government (up to 10 short) to a majority of 50, likely to be around 20-30 majority and definitely NOT the landslide vampira wanted.

 

I don't think you should call her Vampira, as this will turn a lot of people against those that suffer from diabetes and also all women.

 

As there are some women who are black, this is a clear example of inciting racial hatred.

 

#DaveLogic

[davidatpreston]

Well, I wasn't implying that some people don't deserve benefits (though that is a statement that I agree with) and I was in fact saying that disabled people are lucky to have access to the social system available in this country. Like I've already said.

 

Now, 'some people don't deserve benefits' yes - I agree - those that are fit to work but abuse the system. They're taking vital resources that could be spent on more comprehensive care for those that need it. I'm sorry if that is an evil thing to say.

 

What I am absolutely NOT saying (or implying, or anything else) is that disabled people don't deserve benefits. I can't believe I'm even having to say that.

 

And I still don't understand how I'm inciting any crime, although I notice you've conveniently dropped the word crime from your last post.

 

I'm not picking out any disabilities over another. Obviously some require more specialist care than others, some people require a little bit of help, some people require round the clock help.

 

 

That post was a pleasure to read, if you mean it.

 

That may sound unkind, but this last post has a massively different tone to the previous ones.

We could argue all night, but if you ask people whether the sentence

 

..."They're lucky enough to be able to claim benefits for particular disabilities"

 

no suggestion that 'they' means false claimants, and every suggestion that you mean that some disabilities (particular ones you said) does sound like it seperates some people out.

 

If you retract that meaning totally, then I have to retract my ill wishes and apologise (and I am man enough to do so) but I am not totally convinced and I don't think everyone else will be either.

If you take a bit more care with wording things then people will not get the wrong idea, it wasn't just me because poster SV immediately posted the horrible time he had endured, but only you know for certain what you originally meant.

 

I'm going to fully concentrate on the election results now, as it is just getting interesting to say the least. So if you want the last word, go ahead - but I wont be logged on to be able to reply.

 

If you go to bed in good health then cherish that, try to remember those that don't who have needs (NO, I don't mean me, but generally). It isn't acceptable to deny those needs because a small number abuse the system.

[geosname]

Finally, the truth. That we are indeed lucky to live in what is about the 5th (I think) richest country in the world, and one that should and can look after its people who are less fortunate, and can EASILY afford to.

One would hope that other countries will be able to look after their people as they develop, but similar countries to the UK in culture and prosperity - countries like Holland, France, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Canada, Norway, Luxembourg - don't have a problem with looking after their unfortunately disabled people.

Thailand is not yet developed to the same extent, but with respect Geo you made it your choice to live there part of the time, and told us you spend a similar amount of time in Spain - what is the position there ?

 

You also said (maybe jokingly, te internet does not allow us to know) that you were , shall we say, not financially challenged - well good for you, but it does make a difference compared to people who may not be able to pay their rent or eat proper meals if they do not get their proper and deserved disability or other benefits.

 

I have never said otherwise david.

7th richest now I think?

Its not a complaint about Thailand david its just a statement of how things stand in comparison

In some respects david most people are financially challenged... the fluctuation of the £ has devalued my "worth" by over 30%... Im not looking for sympathy by the way its just a factual statement... Im in a situation that I am comfortable with would be an acceptable statement... but things change as we know... and one of those external changes has lead me to live in spain [partly] [far to long an explanation]

The systems in spain I know very little about... I do know the cost of drugs is high [prescription] 4 antibiotic tablets and 8 prescription pain killers cost me 50 euros and I cant buy cardiac medication over the counter... in Thailand I can buy in bulk, over the counter and cheaper than a UK prescription which is also limited by number... a trip to the hospital with a broken toe, usual hospital procedures [doctor, triage, x rays etc] a plaster cast, crutches and medication £20.

[geosname]

 

If you go to bed in good health then cherish that, try to remember those that don't who have needs (NO, I don't mean me, but generally). It isn't acceptable to deny those needs because a small number abuse the system.

 

On a lighter not [i think] I would say... Its not HOW I go to bed that concerns me as much as IF I wake up in the morning... if I do its the start of a good day... even if something comes along later to **** it up