Lee Rigbys killer

[Davebrad]

Harvesting organs is what the Nazis did.

 

We've evolved past eye-for-an-eye killings in the name of the law, this is supposed to be a civilised society.

 

We have, but had he? if islam his law says to fight and kill jews and Christians are we not to defend ourselvies and punish those who brake our laws in our country... terrorists should get the death penalty.

[Yukon]

We have, but had he? if islam his law says to fight and kill jews and Christians are we not to defend ourselvies and punish those who brake our laws in our country... terrorists should get the death penalty.

 

This has the hallmarks of an EDL supporter! Easy there Enoch

[Davebrad]

Indeed we do..one of the joys of debating is to learn about those different views and why people hold them

 

 

 

I agree 100%..my argument is about the principle not an individual case..we have to protect the wrongly convicted form execution and we do that by not having the death penalty..it's the only way to be 100% certain

 

Plus it's morally wrong

 

how do you define morally wrong? in the bible it says "thou shall not kill, also an eye for an eye" which do you obey?

in a civilised society you obey the law, but what is a civilised society? ideally everyone should obey the law and his/her religion, but whilst fighting terrorists its not a level playing field, that's one reason for the Geneva convention, but all have to abide by it. These terrorists don't,beheading people on video to publicise yourselves is wrong, smashing ancient artifacts because other people respect them has no defence...

I read somewhere "we sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night, to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Our laws and conventions don't relate to what's happening terrorism wise in the world today if we are to survive its threat then we must adapt our laws and give those rough men all our support...UP THE VALE:clap:

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Could Lee's family counter sue for loss of family life due to this scum bag's beheading him? and depriving them, also the army could put a claim in for loss of service from a member of the armed service who had cost x amount of money to train... I would dearly love to be on a jury in the above 2 cases if brought.

 

I don't think there would be a jury and in any case you'd be legally bound I think to declare your bias before the case and you'd be thrown off it..quite rightly

[Davebrad]

This has the hallmarks of an EDL supporter! Easy there Enoch

 

no, i'm just a Vale supporter who can see what they are getting away with because we are fighting terrorism with both arms tied behind our backs...

[Yukon]

no, i'm just a Vale supporter who can see what they are getting away with because we are fighting terrorism with both arms tied behind our backs...

 

Yet you focus on Muslims, interesting...

[Davebrad]

I don't think there would be a jury and in any case you'd be legally bound I think to declare your bias before the case and you'd be thrown off it..quite rightly

 

as you say rightly so, but you play to win, you fight fire with fire, this "man" has attacked an unharmed man going about his business, who threatened police who were going to arrest him who are allowed to use reasonable force to restrain him, its lucky it was only 2 teeth, I wonder if he paid for the dental work...

[JOHNNYAITCH]

We have, but had he? if islam his law says to fight and kill jews and Christians are we not to defend ourselvies and punish those who brake our laws in our country... terrorists should get the death penalty.

 

So you want us to become like them? Of course we punish those who break our laws..no one is suggesting otherwise.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

how do you define morally wrong? in the bible it says "thou shall not kill, also an eye for an eye" which do you obey?

 

I'm not guided by the Bible so I don't take my morals from the Bible although I dare say they are largely based on what the Bible teaches what with me being raised in a western society

 

in a civilised society you obey the law, but what is a civilised society?

 

Indeed you do.. I'd say it's what the society defines as civilised..society defines itself over time. It's not an absolute.

 

ideally everyone should obey the law and his/her religion, but whilst fighting terrorists its not a level playing field, that's one reason for the Geneva convention, but all have to abide by it. These terrorists don't,beheading people on video to publicise yourselves is wrong, smashing ancient artifacts because other people respect them has no defence...

 

Indeed I agree they are wrong

 

I read somewhere "we sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night, to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

 

I read that too

 

Our laws and conventions don't relate to what's happening terrorism wise in the world today if we are to survive its threat then we must adapt our laws and give those rough men all our support...UP THE VALE:clap:

 

Not suggesting otherwise..but I'm on about punishment dished out by a court of law not in the "battlefield".

 

Indeed UTV

[Davebrad]

Yet you focus on Muslims, interesting...

I don't think I said muslims I mentioned islam as the religion who muslims are followers that's who the terrorism threat are from, not all muslims are terrorists but most of the one's we are fighting are...

[JOHNNYAITCH]

as you say rightly so, but you play to win, you fight fire with fire, this "man" has attacked an unharmed man going about his business, who threatened police who were going to arrest him who are allowed to use reasonable force to restrain him, its lucky it was only 2 teeth, I wonder if he paid for the dental work...

 

The risk with fighting fire with fire is that we lose our values and we become like them and they win..we stop having due process, the rule of law and so on..then we ALL suffer. Govt will use these events to grab powers, to reduce our freedoms and so on..and if we're not careful we'll walk right into it..it's happening now

[For Us All]

Who's paying for this killer's legal fees,let me guess?

[Davebrad]

Not suggesting otherwise..but I'm on about punishment dished out by a court of law not in the "battlefield".

 

Indeed UTV

 

After the 9-11 attacks it was said "the world grew up" but our law system did not, it has not adapted to the world since then, the only justice to suit the crime these terrorists get is when they are shot dead in a fire-fight with the police( where the police are investigated for discharging their weapon) if caught alive they go to court if found guilty get 10-15yrs and are out in 3-5, or if a lawyer plays the system sooner with compensation...

[Davebrad]

The risk with fighting fire with fire is that we lose our values and we become like them and they win..we stop having due process, the rule of law and so on..then we ALL suffer. Govt will use these events to grab powers, to reduce our freedoms and so on..and if we're not careful we'll walk right into it..it's happening now

 

a few years ago the police/govt. muted the idea for a national dna register, if we had gone that way a good percentage of crimes would have been solved almost immediately, saving money on long investigations and cutting police budgets, but personal liberties groups objected saying big brother was taking over,so it was dropped, ok so your dna was held but if you didn't do anything wrong you had nothing to worry about. Most of our laws today come from Magna Carta, but have not evolved into the modern world and the problems we now have...

[FATBOYSTEVE]

a few years ago the police/govt. muted the idea for a national dna register, if we had gone that way a good percentage of crimes would have been solved almost immediately, saving money on long investigations and cutting police budgets, but personal liberties groups objected saying big brother was taking over,so it was dropped, ok so your dna was held but if you didn't do anything wrong you had nothing to worry about. Most of our laws today come from Magna Carta, but have not evolved into the modern world and the problems we now have...

 

The national DNA REGISTER u refer to is already happening by covert means eg have u seen the ads for ancestory tracking where they send u a DIY kit to provide your DNA do u think that info is not shared with the authorities who know they can't compile registers by normal voluntary means so r utilising other ways to get info. Another is when we all visit the NHS OR Doctors how do u know that info isn't shared with others.

I reckon they probably have a major proportion of the uk population on a DNA DATABASE already regardless of what we know or think big brother is already here and thriving imho !!