Gunmen kill 12 in terrorist attack - Paris

[Tone]

Its wrong to say all muslims are to blame, but its also wrong to say its nothing to do with Islam. Becasue if the religion didnt exist, the shooting wouldnt have happened. People of all religions say their religion is one of peace, and that terrorists interpret it wrong. When the books contain both peaceful and violent teachings. Both cherry pick bits to fit their morality. The books of all main religions are based on teachings thousands of years old. And so a lot of the morality is out of date. However, like I've said, people use their morality to guide how they follow their religion, and not the other way around. THis is why in the past, Christianity was far more violent than it is now. Why females have a more prominent place in the church than in the past. etc. You dont need religion to be moral, but you do need morals to follow religion peacefully.

 

The Nazis and the Japanese had morals, during WW2. Did that just go "out of date"?

[Andyregs]

The Nazis and the Japanese had morals, during WW2. Did that just go "out of date"?

 

What?

[Houston Valiant]

Are we there yet? - 2001: A Space Odyssey (Arthur C. Clarke) :)

 

 

:D:yes:

[Andyregs]

No idea what you point i with that, but if you are arguing that we should behave the same to each other as we did 2000 years ago (attitudes towards women, homosexuals, ethnic cleansing, slavery, rape etc) then the mind boggles.

[Tone]

No idea what you point i with that, but if you are arguing that we should behave the same to each other as we did 2000 years ago (attitudes towards women, homosexuals, ethnic cleansing, slavery, rape etc) then the mind boggles.

 

If you study history, the problem the Bible addresses is the lack of morality at the time. The culture today is one of relativism. What is your moral compass?

[Andyregs]

If you study history, the problem the Bible addresses is the lack of morality at the time. The culture today is one of relativism. What is your moral compass?

 

So if it was about morality 2000 years ago, then its not relevant now? Or it is? Not sure which you are opting for.

However, god being all powerful and all knowing, would surely state what his absolute morals are seeing as the book would be used thousands of years down the line? Like instead of gibing guidence on how to treat slaves, he could have just said, dont have slaves, its wrong. However the people who actually wrote the books probably had slaves.

My moral compass is not to do harm to others. What guides that is probably a combination of countless things. Are you saying you need religion to be moral?

You may have a point about the culture of today, which is why christianity is now open to female bishops. Current morality guiding how people follow their religion, which was my original point.

[Tone]

So if it was about morality 2000 years ago, then its not relevant now? Or it is? Not sure which you are opting for.

However, god being all powerful and all knowing, would surely state what his absolute morals are seeing as the book would be used thousands of years down the line? Like instead of gibing guidence on how to treat slaves, he could have just said, dont have slaves, its wrong. However the people who actually wrote the books probably had slaves.

My moral compass is not to do harm to others. What guides that is probably a combination of countless things. Are you saying you need religion to be moral?

You may have a point about the culture of today, which is why christianity is now open to female bishops. Current morality guiding how people follow their religion, which was my original point.

 

Taking your point about slaves, I believe the concept in those times was totally different to the perception today (which is largely framed by the appalling treatment of African slaves by British and American people 200 years ago). It was more akin to an indentured servant, with a system of granting freedom after seven years and by other means.

 

I contend that our morals come, not from religion, but from our relationship with God.

 

What do you think of this terrible story?:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914138/Teenager-dating-father-two-years-reveals-pair-planning-married-children.html

[TheJoker]

Taking your point about slaves, I believe the concept in those times was totally different to the perception today (which is largely framed by the appalling treatment of African slaves by British and American people 200 years ago). It was more akin to an indentured servant, with a system of granting freedom after seven years and by other means.

 

I contend that our morals come, not from religion, but from our relationship with God.

 

What do you think of this terrible story?:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914138/Teenager-dating-father-two-years-reveals-pair-planning-married-children.html

 

So do atheists, for example, have no morals then?

[Tone]

So do atheists, for example, have no morals then?

 

Not a daft question, or it's not as daft as it looks. ;)

 

We are all created in God's image. So we all have a God-given moral compass. So, to relate this back to the topic of the thread, Muslim Jihadist terrorists know right from wrong. But the human race has been wicked and rebellious since the beginning of time.

[Bea Smith]

 

What do you think of this terrible story?:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914138/Teenager-dating-father-two-years-reveals-pair-planning-married-children.html

 

Normal state of affairs in East Anglia, isnt it? Seriously,as its 2 adults, without defending it, it just doesn't compare in being terrible with murders, bombs etc, Jimmy SAvile, Syria etc.... no? Why did you single it out?

[Andyregs]

Taking your point about slaves, I believe the concept in those times was totally different to the perception today (which is largely framed by the appalling treatment of African slaves by British and American people 200 years ago). It was more akin to an indentured servant, with a system of granting freedom after seven years and by other means.

 

I contend that our morals come, not from religion, but from our relationship with God.

 

What do you think of this terrible story?:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914138/Teenager-dating-father-two-years-reveals-pair-planning-married-children.html

 

Somwhen the bible says you can purchase foreigners, and children of foreigners but not people of Israel, it's apparently a nice version of slavery. When it says you can treat people as property it's not immoral. When it says that you should be punished for striking a slave if he dies, but if he survives for a day or two he shouldn't be punished because he is your property, that isn't treating peoples lives as inferior to their own. Wasn't the bible used as an argument for keeping slavery in the USA?

I don't have a relationship with god, so where do I get my morals from? Am I immoral? Because I don't follow such writings?

As for the bizarre link, you're going to have to tell me what point you're trying to make. I still haven't figured out your nazi example yet. It's all getting quite bizarre.

You have explained why the morals of religious people (the law abiding ones at least) have changed dramatically over the years when their religious book hasn't changed.

[Tone]

Normal state of affairs in East Anglia, isnt it? Seriously,as its 2 adults, without defending it, it just doesn't compare in being terrible with murders, bombs etc, Jimmy SAvile, Syria etc.... no? Why did you single it out?

 

You've confirmed my fears. Thank you.

[Bea Smith]

You've confirmed my fears. Thank you.

 

Shifty, manipulative, nasty. Plant a story that you want to get someone to say is ok - but I didn't. Try reading my post again rather than wetting your nappy over your little scheme.

If you don't agree that it isn't as bad as the atrocities I listed, you might as well join that lot at the Westboro Baptist Coven.

[Bea Smith]

You've confirmed my fears. Thank you.

 

It also occurred to me that if you don't like what is legal in your adopted lovely country, you'd be better addressing whoever makes the laws in New Jersey, as I'm not too bothered what goes on between 2 adults and don't set myself up as a moral judge. The story just isn't that interesting, and despite all your frantic efforts, nor are you I'm afraid.

 

Who knows what your Nazi thing was about - time for a few valium and a bit of counselling for you?

[Andyregs]

I think the idea that you need religion to be moral is not only dangerous but it also puts religious people in a bad light. Where I would say I'm moral because I think its the right thing to do, because I choose to be that way. What Tone seems to suggest is that people are only moral because they follow religion, and if they didn't they would do god knows what?

The idea that you need to follow your God to be moral, means that what follows logically is that if you don't follow your God you are therefore immoral. Isn't that the mind set of a fundamentalist?