Congratulations to UKIP

[carl]

I want out of the EU so who would you suggest I vote for given that the tories may give us a vote but will campaign to stay in, labour wont give us a vote, the libdems don't matter but they wont give us a vote anyway.....????

 

Any Average Joe Bloggs with common sense will not want to stay in the EU- we are paying for a United nations. We are a country that is supposed to have it's own democracy for goodness sake.

[Aussie Rules]

Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post

 

I had better be careful when I am out delivering leaflets according to this video, which, by the content of abuse on this thread and others, I can honestly relate to-

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVFlCRY3cy4

 

One poster to the video said- (Phillip Watts)

 

"It is as if they hate white people who have strong and valid points that they cannot debate or argue or refute, so in order to deal with it they pull out the race card to shut them up (mainly and mostly white people) and close the dialogue so they can have a monologue about how evil, wicked and racist we all are. Well to me the race card is like an expired bus pass it does not give you a free ride anymore its time to pay the fee"

 

That's the Labour party- the party who extinguishes free speech through acts of violence and intimidation if necessary. There hasn't been much activity in Stoke though, as term after term Labour has been voted in just to keep the Tories out. Now thankfully, there is an alternative -UKIP.

 

Again, just checking Carl, is that your understanding of the official UK Labour Party philosophy? Or just an individual interpretation of one person speaking in the video clip?

[geosname]

Any Average Joe Bloggs with common sense will not want to stay in the EU- we are paying for a United nations. We are a country that is supposed to have it's own democracy for goodness sake.

 

ITs not quite as simple as that carl.... if we hadnt been in the eu stoke wouldnt have received millions from it because it was classed as a deprived area and a huge chunk of the social housing wouldnt have been refurbished..

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Carl will you please stop using the phrases lucky and privileged to describe people who own a business or have gone through university education and got well paid jobs.

 

I have a university education and not because i was "privileged" but because i worked damned hard through school and college to make sure I got good enough grades to go. No luck involved at all.

 

SPot on.

 

I don't wish to go into details on here but apart from being lucky enough to have a wonderful Mum and Dad who were together throughout my younger years (I know too many these days do not have that) I believe I got whatever i have thru hard work and sacrifice. Rarely do people genuinely achieve thru privilege and luck.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I can relate to working in a distribution center, carrying people who are getting paid the same as you, who cannot even initially command the English language. Working 60 Hours a week week in week out and feeling like you are getting absolutely no where.

 

60 hours? WHat's the big deal I do that Mon-Fri and I can't remember the last weekend I didn't work. My point is don't dwell on that..it's how it is.

 

Good luck with the OU course. I know many who have used the OU (including my brother) and it led to bigger and better things for them

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I must say I don't see much evidence of Carl being either racist or homophobic, and wonder if some of the patronising posters who are saying this actually understand the meanings of these words.

 

And you accuse them of being patronising

 

He does seem to be nationalistic, but has not referred to skin colour

 

He has repeatedly referred to the white working class...for example

 

being concerned with levels of immigration does not necessarily mean agreeing with the BNP or their followers.

 

I quite agree..I want to see better management of immigration for the benefit of all..but not the way UKIP plans to go about it

 

. One or two of the posters on this thread seem to be actually using people of colour/gay people to score a point over Carl rather than show actual concern at what he says, even trying to put words into his mouth.

 

Just go by the words they use ratyer than guessing at motives....to use a quote from Shakespeare "seems, nay not seems"

 

Joker - Im afraid that you are wrong, at least in some cases, in saying that people who went to university are not fortunate and in some cases privaleged.

 

Of course some are privileged the point is not all..fed up of hearing form those that didn't get a higher education that all those that did were lucky and somehow privileged

 

Certainly a couple of decades ago or more, many children were told they must leave school and get out to work, whether they had the qualifications to go to uni or not - some parents either couldn't or wouldn't afford it and this is no chip on shoulder tale.

 

Well obvioulsy and I am sure it still happens. My own brother had to cut should his higher education cos of financial pressures on our parents. But it's mistaken to assume that all who managed to get thru university are from privileged backgrounds

 

The same may well apply to some business owners. Whilst a small number are the ones we never hear the end of, those who started with nothing and became millionaires, a rather larger number inherited their businesses and whilst they may have worked intensely hard to build them and improve them, they would not have been able to do so if they had started with nothing.

 

Why equate business ownership with being a millionaire? You don't know that..you don't know what they would have done. Jeez

 

As you will have seen in other posts, I am at odds with UKIP over some things, but to name call the wrong people and bring out the wrong arguments wont persuade anyone of anything, even if it does give great satisfaction in being part of the 'gang'.

 

Which gang is that then..more patronisng twaddle.

 

I'm off for a sherry now..bit earleir than normal but what ho!!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Clown???

I think not! Carl has posted what he truly believes in his heart, even though he has had to defend himself against his enemies within the forum.

Having read all of his posts and can say that I agree with most of them.

 

I can't speak for anyione else who disagrees with some of Car;s posts but he is no enemy of min..some of his opinions I find appalling and distasteful but he's no enemy

 

 

Calling him names that are unjustified which insinuate that he is racist and a hater of homosexuals is deplorable.

 

he keep referring to the white working class and has offered no explanation as to why he distingusihes between them and brown/black/Chinese etc working class

 

perhaps has influenced the none contributors who have merely been reading it.

 

Oh what basis?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Maybe he hasn't found anyone he thought was worth voting for before now ?

 

Very true..deliberately not voting is a peefectly legitiamte execution of ones rights

 

 

Despite not agreeing with some of his opinions, he obviously studies and understands the problems of the working class in this land, and expresses them rather better than yourself.

 

I can't agree with that. Because of the specific issue he encounters he "understands the problems of the working class in this land"? He knows his problems and those of his close group of friends but by his own admission that's a narrow group

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You would rather throw cheap insults and shout someone down simply because you disagree with comments without offering any so called foundation or challenge to any of the issues discussed.

 

Carl, you cannot be shouted down on a forum such as this.

 

Instead you throw comments of Racist and Bigot and with no such reason to do so.

 

I will ask again, why do you keep referring to the 'white working class'..why distinguish between one working class person and another based on their skin colour? Are not black working class people suffering cos of immigration, austerity etc? Are not brown working clas people etc?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

"It is as if they hate white people who have strong and valid points that they cannot debate or argue or refute, so in order to deal with it they pull out the race card to shut them up (mainly and mostly white people) and close the dialogue so they can have a monologue about how evil, wicked and racist we all are. Well to me the race card is like an expired bus pass it does not give you a free ride anymore its time to pay the fee"

.

 

Totally agree..there has been a lot of that

 

But there are still white racists hiding behind 'concerns' about immigration..one of the reason to present the immigration argument well

[Memphis]

Thank you for your insight AR. I totally agree that a huge proportion of Westminster MP's are out of touch. But as you state, we as citizens have a right to exercise free democracy. I would argue that the problem has been with what you state has become a mindset for many and they do not even vote, let alone become an activist, as you state you yourself has previously done down under.

 

I will say one thing, and this will surprise you. I have never voted. I have never, ever bothered with politics. However, through life experience and disillusionment with such issues such as the Economy, Society, Standards of Living , Law and Order, and the list goes on, I have slowly watched the persistence and growing disdain of many, and it has lead right from when Labour took hold of power in 1997. I have also witnessed as as a child in the 1980's severe cuts to living standards in my own family, when the then tory Government forced thousands to beg for food etc in the period of the miner strike. I have come from that background. Without a university education I was in a position where I have done nothing but worked, in Jobs, where possibly, the terms and conditions could have been a lot better.

 

And that is what I see now Big Business calling the shots and pushing the Government to stay in a EU which only serves the multinationals but hits the joe Bloggs worker hard, very hard. They are using migration not as a requirement to get the many jobs done, but to get it done at as cheap a price as possible.

 

In the 1980's the industry in the North Stafford shire area was thriving, and men were able to sustain a decent standard of living and own a house. Nowadays, to do that you must be either lucky enough to be in a trade or have a Business of your own or a job which pays a high rate through having a University education. I never had either of these. I have had to make do and do the best I can given my unprivileged situation, as many others have done. It is hard and frankly demoralizing at times, but apart from undertaking a correspondence course, which takes a lot of discipline as it is in your own time, there has really been no other hope or outlet for me to obtain better prosperity. But what I will say, is that I have hardened up and realized that democracy is something worth fighting for. Many, though, cannot be bothered as they see as you do. I am prepared to ignore the fact that many politicians are rich and use my own motivation for pushing for a society and a right to live as others have done and working for a wage which is not undercut. I believe that UKIP will change all that in time, but like anything worth fighting for it will not be easy.

 

I can relate to working in a distribution center, carrying people who are getting paid the same as you, who cannot even initially command the English language. Working 60 Hours a week week in week out and feeling like you are getting absolutely no where. This is what pushes me and as far as I am concerned Democracy is worth fighting for, because without it, you are doing Big Business and the Rich a massive favour.

 

No I will not be running to be a Councillor or MP,before the GE, :laugh:possibly when I have completed my OU course and obtained a few bob, I may entertain taking a more formal participation but for now I will back the relevant candidate in Stoke On Trent North, and will assist where I possibly can should it be delivering leaflets etc to local people.

 

What utter horse****.

 

Grow a backbone man and stop blaming everybody else for your own failings.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Some 'provocative' posts today..food for thought..swan in my case ;)

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I have also witnessed as as a child in the 1980's severe cuts to living standards in my own family, when the then tory Government forced thousands to beg for food etc in the period of the miner strike.

 

Really? IMO that's a very simplistic view of the miner's strike and I speak as the son of a former miner who had very strong veiws on the strike, Scargill and the NUM and wasn't afraid to share those views

 

I have come from that background. .

 

Me too. I don't like to labour the point but s 0 d it....my Mum was a labourer on Sadlers before having to finish work thru ill health when I was 15 and my Dad was a miner and then a paint sprayer at ROF Radway green before he died when I was 19. I got myself a university education by supporting myself taking every bit of work I could get (gardener, night watchman, doorman/bouncer, washing cars, shovelling flour in bakeries, cleaning out machinery in a steel works are a few I remember). It was all ****** hard work..no cars nor motorbikes no holidays for me..I wass ending money home to my Mum and Dad (I can hear the violins now!! :) )

 

But I did have the luckiest thing anyone can ask for, a Mum and Dad who right up until I was 18 when I moved from SoT were together and gave me perfect role models and a stable home,..conner put a value on that.

 

ENuff...of course it's very different these days..spending this afternoon on the yacht and I believe smoked salmon is the lunch of choice today...Libnesky is a very good cook, trained in a top Warsaw hotel..or was it a top Walsall hotel?? ;)

[bookworm]

hey ja we've all done a bit of that, working on shelton bar descaling the cat cracker during the annual hols (it paid the rates) and doing two jobs for 25 years, you do what you have to do to eat,pay the bills etc. nowt special about that,just a normal earning a living life,well it was to me and countless thousands of others...:D

[stupers]

Really? IMO that's a very simplistic view of the miner's strike and I speak as the son of a former miner who had very strong veiws on the strike, Scargill and the NUM and wasn't afraid to share those views

 

 

 

Me too. I don't like to labour the point but s 0 d it....my Mum was a labourer on Sadlers before having to finish work thru ill health when I was 15 and my Dad was a miner and then a paint sprayer at ROF Radway green before he died when I was 19. I got myself a university education by supporting myself taking every bit of work I could get (gardener, night watchman, doorman/bouncer, washing cars, shovelling flour in bakeries, cleaning out machinery in a steel works are a few I remember). It was all ****** hard work..no cars nor motorbikes no holidays for me..I wass ending money home to my Mum and Dad (I can hear the violins now!! :) )

 

But I did have the luckiest thing anyone can ask for, a Mum and Dad who right up until I was 18 when I moved from SoT were together and gave me perfect role models and a stable home,..conner put a value on that.

 

ENuff...of course it's very different these days..spending this afternoon on the yacht and I believe smoked salmon is the lunch of choice today...Libnesky is a very good cook, trained in a top Warsaw hotel..or was it a top Walsall hotel?? ;)

 

Excellent post. I worked 30 hours a week when I was doing my A-levels, I worked 20 hours a week when I was university during term-time then did a full-time job making car parts during the summers I was off. As you did, I also had excellent parents as role models who showed me the value of hard work and made me see that you only get what you put in during life.

 

Since getting a full-time job as a graduate (Call centre worker, we don't all walk into upper management positions Carl), I have managed to take advantage of opportunities when they came along and have now got a professional trade, of which I'm extremely proud of for putting the hundreds of hours studying out of work that I had to. The opportunities came to me because I worked hard, if I hadn't then I'd probably still be in that call centre. I know plenty of people that haven't been 'privelidged' enough to get a University Education that have done very well for themselves. Showing aptitude, attitude, hard work and a willingness to do what it takes will get you a long way in this world.

 

Not like that Yukon fella, hasn't worked a day in his life that lad