4 minutes ago, Dol Boy said:

I remember Oldham fans saying Garrity was useless and ridiculing us for signing him.  We have to trust DM to sign decent players up to L1 standard.

This type of argument comes around every year, "you can't listen to fans of other clubs because it didn't happen with X player" but in reality people who have actually watched these players are the best judge surely. 

In the 20 odd years I've been a vale fan, it's happened twice maybe? Garrity and Sodje were better than other fans said. I'd say the rest have ranged from bang average to Ryan Loft. 

Edited May 26, 20251 yr by Walka003

49 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

What doubters?

The ones with red and white in there eyes ,whos only praise for the Vale going up, is you coming back down again, read and heard that comment so much its certainly fired  me up thats the pre season team talk done .

Nothing else needs be said 

UTV 

Edited May 26, 20251 yr by Dipepa delight

This type of argument comes around every year, "you can't listen to fans of other clubs because it didn't happen with X player" but in reality people who have actually watched these players are the best judge surely. 
In the 20 odd years I've been a vale fan, it's happened twice maybe? Garrity and Sodje were better than other fans said. I'd say the rest have ranged from bang average to Ryan Loft. 

So every manger is missing a trick by not scouring a clubs Internet forum to decide whether to sign a player? Give over man

I'm hoping we hear good news about Mitch resigning. A fully fit Clark and John are more than good enough for L1 

I can imagine he's got a few clubs interested though 

28 minutes ago, philmpv said:

55 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

This type of argument comes around every year, "you can't listen to fans of other clubs because it didn't happen with X player" but in reality people who have actually watched these players are the best judge surely. 
In the 20 odd years I've been a vale fan, it's happened twice maybe? Garrity and Sodje were better than other fans said. I'd say the rest have ranged from bang average to Ryan Loft. 

So every manger is missing a trick by not scouring a clubs Internet forum to decide whether to sign a player? Give over man

What a bizarre tangent to go on. Who's talked about forums?

I'm saying people who have spent 40 games watching a player for a season probably have a good idea if they are good or not and it shouldn't be instantly dismissed as "oh but what about Sodje he was good 15 years ago!!!!"

That being said, there was tears on here when the team got posted a day earlier because someone had seen it at training. So by that logic maybe they are already scouting forums 

14 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

What a bizarre tangent to go on. Who's talked about forums?

I'm saying people who have spent 40 games watching a player for a season probably have a good idea if they are good or not and it shouldn't be instantly dismissed as "oh but what about Sodje he was good 15 years ago!!!!"

People in the game are looking for a lot of different attributes in a player than football fans are. Dare i say most football fans don’t fully understand the game enough or even the specific roles of the players in what they have to do in a game. Most just follow the ball and judge players on what they do with it, rather than the 90 minutes work they do on and off the ball. 

Edited May 26, 20251 yr by PV1973

2 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

People in the game are looking at a lot of different attributes than football fans are, dare i say most football fans don’t fully understand the game enough or even specific roles of the players in what they are asked to do. 

Would you recommend Rakheem Harper to a L1 club? Did you argue that Loft would be the new Sodje when we signed him? And did you say that Cambridge might be getting a bargain because of his attributes we can't see?

If the answer to any of the above is no then it's kind of null and void what you're trying to say. 

Either way, as Granville says, it's probably a crock of rubbish drummed up by his agent. If not it's a bit of a concern. 

1 hour ago, Walka003 said:

This type of argument comes around every year, "you can't listen to fans of other clubs because it didn't happen with X player" but in reality people who have actually watched these players are the best judge surely. 

In the 20 odd years I've been a vale fan, it's happened twice maybe? Garrity and Sodje were better than other fans said. I'd say the rest have ranged from bang average to Ryan Loft. 

I think it's a good point in that fans can generally spot the skill / workrate / potential of a player over a season. 

However, I think there are other factors as to whether a player does well for a club too... each team has different managers, players, formations, coaching techniques (and off the pitch there's things like how the family's settled in the area, the length of commute and so on). All of those will surely have an effect on whether a player performs well or not.

So, someone who is criticised at one club may go to another where there's a different set-up, where he's more settled off the pitch and do better. The flipside takes place as well - someone who is settled and fits in well at one team can struggle at another. 

So, I always tend to say it doesn't matter what a player did for another club (good or bad) but what they can do in a Vale shirt that matters. And generally you can only tell that after ten games or so.

 

3 minutes ago, robf said:

I think it's a good point in that fans can generally spot the skill / workrate / potential of a player over a season. 

However, I think there are other factors as to whether a player does well for a club too... each team has different managers, players, formations, coaching techniques (and off the pitch there's things like how the family's settled in the area, the length of commute and so on). All of those will surely have an effect on whether a player performs well or not.

So, someone who is criticised at one club may go to another where there's a different set-up, where he's more settled off the pitch and do better. The flipside takes place as well - someone who is settled and fits in well at one team can struggle at another. 

So, I always tend to say it doesn't matter what a player did for another club (good or bad) but what they can do in a Vale shirt that matters. And generally you can only tell that after ten games or so.

 

10 games is a good yard stick. But in the last 30 years say can you think of another example of a player who's defide expectations and been good in the face of opposition fans, other than Sodje and Garrity. My memory isn't amazing so there probably is some, but given I can only think of two, I'd argue it's a very effective benchmark of a players ability. 

Edited May 26, 20251 yr by Walka003

1 hour ago, Dol Boy said:

I remember Oldham fans saying Garrity was useless and ridiculing us for signing him.  We have to trust DM to sign decent players up to L1 standard.

Correct,I trust DM to bring in the players he thinks will improve us,yes he will get the odd one wrong(who doesn't) but i feel he will get more right than wrong

1 hour ago, Brian Johnson said:

I know I mentioned him a couple of weeks back would love to see us sign Brendan Wiredu. Ticks loads of boxes in a Big D signing 

I personally think we can do better than him. I would have preferred to keep Smudge than bring him in.

9 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

10 games is a good yard stick. But in the last 30 years say can you think of another example of a player who's defide expectations and been good in the face of opposition fans, other than Sodje and Garrity. I'd argue it's a very effective benchmark of a players ability. 

@Walka003 ahem, as per the first sentence, I'm agreeing with you that fans are generally a good barometer 😉

My point was just that sometimes players can also be less effective in different formations and when they move areas so sometimes other factors come into play as well as ability.

 

I see Plymouth are on the verge of signing their 3rd player,Jack McKenzie from Aberdeen... it looks like they dont want to hang around in League One for long(although we all know it doesn't always work out like that)

8 minutes ago, Walka003 said:

Would you recommend Rakheem Harper to a L1 club? Did you argue that Loft would be the new Sodje when we signed him? And did you say that Cambridge might be getting a bargain because of his attributes we can't see?

If the answer to any of the above is no then it's kind of null and void what you're trying to say. 

Either way, as Granville says, it's probably a crock of rubbish drummed up by his agent. If not it's a bit of a concern. 

As an example of what I think PV1973 is saying, take a look at where Harper is in the lead up to Grimsby's first goal. He is ball watching and allows a player to drift in behind him to get the shot away.

After Grimsby scored, Byers went mental at Harper. 

1 hour ago, Walka003 said:

Im happy to show screenshots if you are

Ohhhhh you show me yours and I will show you mine ...... I have used that line a few times before 🙂