Crosby is Out NOW !!!

[Brian Johnson]

2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

So, if we finish on more points than last season come the end of the season you will openly admit we have gone forwards?

or if we finish on less points than last season?

[JoeB2]

2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Bookies initially had us to go down before the season started. 

League One Relegation Odds 2023/24 | BettingOdds.com

WWW.BETTINGODDS.COM

 

EFL League One 2023/24 relegation odds with Fleetwood Town favourites for the drop - football.london

WWW.FOOTBALL.LONDON

Simply isn't true. These were both pre-season. The closest I can find is that second article which had us as 7th favourites for relegation.

14th is decent but let's not rewrite expectations to make it seem even more impressive. It's fine enough in its own right against expectations we'd finish in lower mid-table.

[philpvfc]

2 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

or if we finish on less points than last season?

Then we have gone backwards 

[philpvfc]

2 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

League One Relegation Odds 2023/24 | BettingOdds.com

WWW.BETTINGODDS.COM

 

EFL League One 2023/24 relegation odds with Fleetwood Town favourites for the drop - football.london

WWW.FOOTBALL.LONDON

Simply isn't true. These were both pre-season. The closest I can find is that second article which had us as 7th favourites for relegation.

14th is decent but let's not rewrite expectations to make it seem even more impressive. It's fine enough in its own right against expectations we'd finish in lower mid-table.

Trust me, we were originally second favourites to go down behind Stevenage. I quoted it one of the forums but then later we moved up to about 15th where I again quoted, stating the bookies must like our signings to lower the odds on us going down. 

[eh up nah]

11 hours ago, LancyTony said:

"You do realise we lost don't you?..."

"It's a lot easier to get on the front foot and take it to a team that's 3 nil up and don't need to do anything other than sot there and let the opposition play in front of them."

"We had chances second half, granted, but the damage was done and it would have taken a colossal effort to get anything from the game."

Well - "maybe taking the piss" was a bit strong...unnecessarily scathing, perhaps?

As for your pedigree as a Vale fan - I would have no way of knowing that, previously, so couldn't be expected to respect that...nor you my 60 years as a Vale fan?

It would not have taken a monumental effort - just one of the chances we made to have sneaked in rather than flew over the crossbar.

I have never said he was a decent manager...I couldn't have known that...but that he deserved the chance to show whether he was? 

I don't think that my comments were unnecessarily scathing.  You were implying that I should have been eating my words about the first half shambles and my frustration with Andy Crosby.  I did say I wanted him sacked and I don't regret that.  We went 11 without a win, playing some of the most mind numbingly frustrating football I've seen in my time watching the Vale.

I am absolutely not a knee jerk reactor.  I don't call for managers to be sacked as it goes.  Not at all.  I arrived at the frustrated stage with AC a lot earlier than i have with most others as I just haven't seen a strategy to what we're doing.  When the Blackpool fans were hammering their team on Friday night with "we pass the ball and we do <ovf censored> all" that is exactly how I've felt about us the last three months.

I thought Friday was very much improved from us.  Has it changed my views on AC, certainly not entirely.  If we revert to type tomorrow at Carlisle then I'll be right back to where I was after Barnsley.  As I say, I think that's far from knee jerk as it's built up with me over most of the season and going back the second half of last season.  We've been largely awful for 12 months.  

I'm not here to out pedigree anyone, I did feel you'd tarred me with a brush and had me down as a gobshite as my views differ from yours.  Fair play on the 60 years, God willing I'll get to that too.  I'll certainly be going regardless of what division we're in and whoever is managing us.  That won't stop me having an opinion on the job they're doing though.

I will argue until the cows come home that coming back to rescue a point from a game after being 3.0 down at halftime in a league game requires a colossal effort.

Nobody could have known if AC would be a decent manager or not, although it could be argued that his record in charge last season at this level was questionable at best and that we lost key games at the end of our ultimately fantastic season the year before.  However, the fact you argued with my views on him on boxing day did lead me to believe you must have rated him at the time.

If we start to consistently get performances and results over the next month or two, I'd  change my mind.  I'm sure anyone currently hammering him would do so as well.  I don't think there are many out there who simply don't want him to do well (there will always be a few).

But people have been fed up for very good reason.

 

[Wrex]

8 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Trust me, we were originally second favourites to go down behind Stevenage. I quoted it one of the forums but then later we moved up to about 15th where I again quoted, stating the bookies must like our signings to lower the odds on us going down. 

They probably based it on our poor form at the end of last season, then as you said liked our recruitment in the summer 

[familystander]

11 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

or if we finish on less points than last season?

I walked out of the game with two Blackpool fans . They both said that their  fans are fed up up of the sideways and back passing tactics that there manager plays. This proves that 90% of all fans are saying the same thing about their management.  They said we beat them because we had a big lump up front who caused havoc.  Cros is no different from most managers.  This season I've seen the best midfield in years,  but an inconsistent defence and a poor front line. I think cros will mix it up in the second half of the season and hopefully we will see a mid table finish. Let's get behind Cros and the lads.

[MelbourneValiant]

15 hours ago, philpvfc said:

So, if we finish on more points than last season come the end of the season you will openly admit we have gone forwards?

Correct.

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:06, Walka003 said:

On 26/12/2023 at 19:05, dazzerjames said:

How is 2-3 places higher in the league financially beneficial to replacing management / dof and back room staff ?
there are about 10 other teams all making the same complaints. 
 
im not saying there isn’t need for a change in approach , but mid season isn’t the best time at all just because you had your Boxing Day ruined 

You're spot on, let's not bother changing managers and take the relegation that's staring us down. We might win a few in L2 and everyone will be happier!

Tears of a clown!

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:20, Walka003 said:

On 26/12/2023 at 19:18, dazzerjames said:

I’m glad you don’t run my organisation, if you think knee jerk changes at the first time of trouble is the answer. Come back to me after Carlisle.
anything less than 4 points maybe time to go. But just because it’s Christmas doesn’t mean we deserved to beat a top 7 team.
 
 
 

Knee jerk, two wins in 15 is knee jerk? Any other club this skid mark is out on his ear mid October. We're stuck with him unfortunately.

W3 D1 L1 in League games in December would be knee-jerk! 

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:22, JoeB2 said:

“Knee jerk changes at the first sign of trouble” is word for word what people said when Aspin, Brown, Askey, and Bruno were on the ropes. Moral highorsery.

Its the belief that persisting with something that isn’t working somehow requires greater thought than realising it’s time to change.

Folk often think they’re thinking about it more if they’re ideologically committed to not sacking managers - in reality they’re thinking just as much/little as they everyone else and just reaching a different conclusion. 

Sacking AC after December League win rate of 66%, and gaining 66% of points available would indeed be knee jerk...despite the DIY Psychology evaluiation!

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:33, Brian Johnson said:

They did when they appointed serial winners

Gerard Houllier

Rafael Benitez

Jurgen Klopp

Oh, Brian - you do realize that the successor to Bill Shankly was his assistant Bob Paisley - who went on to win a club record 20 trophies? He didn't have much of a managerial CV...but had a good coaching pedigree? And Dalglish won 9 trophies, only resigning sometime after Hillsborough?

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:38, ollyandpatch said:

Thank God for this post. 52 years for me and have seen it all !

I was shooting from the hip at half time when I started this thread and was angry however having had a few hours to think things over I believe it was the right call.

Crosby did brilliant in helping us over the line in our promotion season but can count himself the luckiest manager ever to be handed his first top role in management in League One !!  

IF we don't make a change soon all the great work the owners have done will start to crumble.

My biggest issue is why have a mediocre club in the third tier of English football got a Director of Football?

8th tier Basingstoke Town do...and the story behind it seems reasonable?

Training Ground Guru | Mike Gilham: Director of Football in the eighth tier

I guess it depends on your embracing modern methods, or determination to stick to old school? Personally, I think Rudgie would have loved that kind of support?...in fact, he became DoF at Sjoke for 14 years!

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:51, ollyandpatch said:

I think you might be correct and my bones tell me we will be welcoming Morecambe Harrogate Newport Salford etc next season.

You can get creams for them aching bones!

[LancyTony]

On 26/12/2023 at 20:34, PV1973 said:

Have to say that the word from people I knew at the club at the time was that DC called the shots about when he was going to come back. It was his decision. Not the club asking him to come back him. 

Yep - and,. later, he admitted he came back too soon!