Racism in our political parties.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Maureen Lipman resigned from Labour when Ed Milliband was leader. Is he an anti-semite? What about Jewish groups and members that don't feel that the party is anti-semitic? Are they just to be ignored? Could it not be that the groups and individuals that are condemning the party have ulterior motives (i.e. pro-Israel, anti Palestine, anti Socialism)? Why is there such uproar regarding 0.06% (still too many) of the membership?

[mr.hobblesworth]

20 minutes ago, geosname said:

Try to leave your bias at home? Look at all the possibilities and question everything.... it's not easy.

Which is why I started the thread. However, there's not really been any debating or rebuttal of the points I've made.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Re Lipman

Quote

But the prominent Jew reserved her most hostile comments for the Labour leader’s decision to back a symbolic Commons vote in favour of recognising the state of Palestine alongside Israel.

This is what we're dealing with here.

[Fosse69]

20 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

What am I supposed to do?

Read the comments to find anything new, reply if worthwhile. Personally I do not think it will go away,  it is partly  2000 years old, Israel is a modern problem. An independent enquiry can be held, recommended changes made, that could improve internal relationships. But changing the media situation is unlikely.. Whether it will affect the next election who knows, 4 parties in a 2 party electoral system.. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

Yeah. I am beginning to wonder whether public opinion is turning a little and people are beginning to see through it all, it's all so patently bullsht. One of the reasons I started the thread was because most of the people I talk to about politics are fellow socialists and I wondered what 'normal' people thought about it. I've not seen anything to really challenge my first post.

[geosname]

43 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Yeah. I am beginning to wonder whether public opinion is turning a little and people are beginning to see through it all, it's all so patently bullsht. One of the reasons I started the thread was because most of the people I talk to about politics are fellow socialists and I wondered what 'normal' people thought about it. I've not seen anything to really challenge my first post.

Normal people? Really? Are you suggesting socialists are superior?

It's not a discussion about racism because your bias dominates your post..... it's about jezza... not Jerusalem. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

Not at all! It was a self-deprecating joke that 'we' weren't normal.

It's not a discussion about racism because no-one has been able to argue that there is a significant level of racism or give examples of that racism. Are you saying my posts or the anti-semitism 'crisis' is about Corbyn not Jerusalem?

I started the thread because I thought it would be worth discussing one of the major political stories of the moment instead of just inserting glib asides in to the other threads. My position on this is clearly stated and I'm happy to discuss or debate it civilly. Don't see why you have a problem with that.

[geosname]

How many complaints have been made...... not the % the actual number?

We know the number of complaints has increased because Labour said so..... they admitted they increased the number of investigators.... more than once I think.

The workers may be dissafected and lords and mps may not like jezza...... does that mean their statements/accusations are unfounded?

It may all be another gunpowder plot, without asking and answering the pertinant questions no one knows?

Are you assuming it's a plot because you like jezza? Isn't that as bad as it being a plot because people don't like jezza?

[geosname]

4 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Not at all! It was a self-deprecating joke that 'we' weren't normal.

It's not a discussion about racism because no-one has been able to argue that there is a significant level of racism or give examples of that racism. Are you saying my posts or the anti-semitism 'crisis' is about Corbyn not Jerusalem?

I started the thread because I thought it would be worth discussing one of the major political stories of the moment instead of just inserting glib asides in to the other threads. My position on this is clearly stated and I'm happy to discuss or debate it civilly. Don't see why you have a problem with that.

I thought you wanted to discuss racism...... not jezzas innocence.

[mr.hobblesworth]

I want to discuss "racism in the political parties" and part of that is how it has been weaponised by the enemies of Corbyn. It's all linked. I've purposely kept away from the racism in other parties as I don't want to come across as point-scoring although I would like someone to point out to me the answer to the query I raised earlier about the disparity in hysteria and media coverage for the two main parties' issues with racism. It's hard to actually have a wide ranging discussion on the thread topic when no-one seems to be able (or wants to) challenge my initial assertion.

[mr.hobblesworth]

27 minutes ago, geosname said:

How many complaints have been made...... not the % the actual number?

We know the number of complaints has increased because Labour said so..... they admitted they increased the number of investigators.... more than once I think.

The workers may be dissafected and lords and mps may not like jezza...... does that mean their statements/accusations are unfounded?

It may all be another gunpowder plot, without asking and answering the pertinant questions no one knows?

Are you assuming it's a plot because you like jezza? Isn't that as bad as it being a plot because people don't like jezza?

Only just saw this post....

I'm not sure of the actual numbers. I do know that out of the 200 or so examples that MArgaret Hodge presented to the NEC, 90% weren't even made by Labour members. 

Quote

The workers may be dissafected and lords and mps may not like jezza...... does that mean their statements/accusations are unfounded?

I don't think they're unfounded as such but I think that a very very small % of tossers are being used by these people to manufacture a crisis. Like with Lipman, she had the same axe to grind with Ed Milliband but there was no anti-semitism 'crisis' back then.

 Also, as I keep saying, I don't understand why criticism of Israel is classed as anti-semitism and much of the charges of anti-semitism comes from these types of statements. One of the reasons I started the thread was to try and learn a little about this kind of stuff. I'm surprised that the people who were jeering about Panorama haven't come to this thread to explain why Labour is such a racist party.

 

Quote

Are you assuming it's a plot because you like jezza? Isn't that as bad as it being a plot because people don't like jezza?

I admit that I find the very idea that a man who has spent his political life campaigning against racism is now being labelled as a racist quite laughable. However, I don't idolise the man or think he's beyond reproach so if I did think he was facilitating racists I wouldn't support him.

 

[geosname]

17 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I want to discuss "racism in the political parties" and part of that is how it has been weaponised by the enemies of Corbyn. It's all linked. I've purposely kept away from the racism in other parties as I don't want to come across as point-scoring although I would like someone to point out to me the answer to the query I raised earlier about the disparity in hysteria and media coverage for the two main parties' issues with racism. It's hard to actually have a wide ranging discussion on the thread topic when no-one seems to be able (or wants to) challenge my initial assertion.

First you have to decide if there is racism. Just because someone says it doesn't make it true. Just because someone denies it doesn't make it false.

How many complaints have been made?...... how many have not been dealt with?...... what's the average time taken to deal with a complaint.?...... etc etc

Again your not debating racism..... your debating Labour's, especially jezzas, innocents. ... which I don't blame you for.

Everything in the political world is a weapon or a tool when elections are in the wind..... look at johnsons domestic argument..... front page news.... how many domestic disagreements take place daily? How many make the local papers let alone the nationals? Police were called, as they should be, situation dealt with, no charges?..... it's all political.... what's the % of mps involved in domestics?.... what's the percentage of commoners involved in domestics?

[geosname]

I thought your initial intent was to discuss the difference, if any, between antisemitism and anti Israel. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

That was one of my intentions, yes.

[geosname]

If you go into a question with a biased view you will find the biased answer you look for.

You could start from a police perspective....... guilty until you prove yourself innocent...... although not recommended unless you investigate your own failings, faults and screw ups.