UK Independence Day - 23 June, 2016?

[Fortyoddyears]

And still it goes on. The London based media and "chattering classes" continue to report (and support?) anything relating to REMAIN camp voters.

1. Yesterday Channel 4 news talked to BREXITERS in a Burnley cobbled street. First question to a girl aged about 25. "Why did you vote out?" "Because my mum told me to."Later inside the girls terraced

house "What has the EU ever given to people living on benefits."

2. News 24 today Poly Tonybee alongside a German and French "intellectual" (what the hell a UK referendum has got to do with them?) Polly,people died on the Somme to protect Europe's freedom.My great grandfather and great uncle did not die on the Western Front so David Cameron (PM of a party elected by millions) could be humiliated by the unelected minnion called John Claude Juncher.

3.The anti BREXIT march coverage interviewed a girl aged about 20 who was young and lived in London. Only 36% of 18 to 24 age group voted (and how many voted out) and the vote covered the ENTIRE UK.

 

You LOST get on with it.

[Fosse69]

A general election every 5 years is written in the fixed term parliament act which itself was formulated by a democratic act. So to never again have a general election is not democratic. Today, a march or protest is an example of free speech (and long may that continue) but to march/protest against the result of a democratic referendum, the result of which has not yet been actioned, is totally undemocratic.

Parliament can be dissolved at any time by the members of parliament, which may not be far off.

[Jacko51]

A general election every 5 years is written in the fixed term parliament act which itself was formulated by a democratic act. So to never again have a general election is not democratic. Today, a march or protest is an example of free speech (and long may that continue) but to march/protest against the result of a democratic referendum, the result of which has not yet been actioned, is totally undemocratic.

 

But democracy is about expressing the will of the people, not just the people who agree with the majority so why can't these people march? What if hypothetically 18 million people join the march - would it still be anti-democratic?

[Fosse69]

And still it goes on. The London based media and "chattering classes" continue to report (and support?) anything relating to REMAIN camp voters.

1. Yesterday Channel 4 news talked to BREXITERS in a Burnley cobbled street. First question to a girl aged about 25. "Why did you vote out?" "Because my mum told me to."Later inside the girls terraced

house "What has the EU ever given to people living on benefits."

2. News 24 today Poly Tonybee alongside a German and French "intellectual" (what the hell a UK referendum has got to do with them?) Polly,people died on the Somme to protect Europe's freedom.My great grandfather and great uncle did not die on the Western Front so David Cameron (PM of a party elected by millions) could be humiliated by the unelected minnion called John Claude Juncher.

3.The anti BREXIT march coverage interviewed a girl aged about 20 who was young and lived in London. Only 36% of 18 to 24 age group voted (and how many voted out) and the vote covered the ENTIRE UK.

 

You LOST get on with it.

Do not forget only 24% of the total electorate voted for the current government if you want to bandy percentages. All we are wondering about is what was won, nobody seems to know?

[Jacko51]

And still it goes on. The London based media and "chattering classes" continue to report (and support?) anything relating to REMAIN camp voters.

1. Yesterday Channel 4 news talked to BREXITERS in a Burnley cobbled street. First question to a girl aged about 25. "Why did you vote out?" "Because my mum told me to."Later inside the girls terraced

house "What has the EU ever given to people living on benefits."

2. News 24 today Poly Tonybee alongside a German and French "intellectual" (what the hell a UK referendum has got to do with them?) Polly,people died on the Somme to protect Europe's freedom.My great grandfather and great uncle did not die on the Western Front so David Cameron (PM of a party elected by millions) could be humiliated by the unelected minnion called John Claude Juncher.

3.The anti BREXIT march coverage interviewed a girl aged about 20 who was young and lived in London. Only 36% of 18 to 24 age group voted (and how many voted out) and the vote covered the ENTIRE UK.

 

You LOST get on with it.

 

So are you saying we can no longer debate the issue? Is that not a rather dictatorial approach? Should we not be discussing Vale's new signings on here because they've already signed so that's the end of it?

[Guest TommyMac]

But democracy is about expressing the will of the people, not just the people who agree with the majority so why can't these people march? What if hypothetically 18 million people join the march - would it still be anti-democratic?

 

The will of the people was decided by the referendum. The referendum was called, not to produce an outcome to be upheld by law but to gauge the will of the people. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[Jacko51]

The will of the people was decided by the referendum. The referendum was called, not to produce an outcome to be upheld by law but to gauge the will of the people. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

All I was saying in my original post is in a democracy, what happens when the will of the people changes? Is an issue, once decided by referendum, never to be changed again? It was as much a debating point rather than specifically to do with current events. Should we, for example, ever have another referendum about the UK electoral system because we've already had one five years ago?

[Guest TommyMac]

All I was saying in my original post is in a democracy, what happens when the will of the people changes? Is an issue, once decided by referendum, never to be changed again? It was as much a debating point rather than specifically to do with current events. Should we, for example, ever have another referendum about the UK electoral system because we've already had one five years ago?

 

I see no reason why an issue shouldn't be reversed by further referendum but to have a second vote before the original change has been actioned is undemocratic. Perhaps the labour party could have it in their manifesto at the next general election

[Warren]

Parliament can be dissolved at any time by the members of parliament, which may not be far off.

 

To call a general election now requires a vote where 2/3 (maybe 60%) of MPs vote in favour. One guesses that Labour would default to vote in favour and so the Tory's could call a general election. But the Labour MPs will realise they could lose 50-100 seats if an election happens in the Autumn and maybe they would abstain. That is why they are desperate to remove Corbyn.

[Jacko51]

I see no reason why an issue shouldn't be reversed by further referendum but to have a second vote before the original change has been actioned is undemocratic.

 

But what if the referendum was advisory and not mandatory like the electoral reform one? Should the result of the referendum have to be implemented before the will of the people could be measured again?

[Guest TommyMac]

But what if the referendum was advisory and not mandatory like the electoral reform one? Should the result of the referendum have to be implemented before the will of the people could be measured again?

 

I really can't believe you have just asked that question. Do we have an infinite number of referendum before anything is implemented? What if 'Remain' won a second referendum, do we have another and another and .... The referendum was advisory but the whole electorate knew what was being voted for. It would be political suicide to ignore the will of the people and set a very dangerous precedent.

[Jacko51]

I really can't believe you have just asked that question. Do we have an infinite number of referendum before anything is implemented? What if 'Remain' won a second referendum, do we have another and another and .... The referendum was advisory but the whole electorate knew what was being voted for. It would be political suicide to ignore the will of the people and set a very dangerous precedent.

 

I agree on the political suicide bit at this particular moment but I think it's interesting that a number of the Leave campaign are saying not to implement Article 50 immediately. As Lenin said “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” We're certainly living in the latter.

[Jinkin John Jeffers]

Bob geldof ranting at the March, did he ever house the families of refugees that he promised to help?

 

I have no problem with people marching it's free speak and all that, but the result should stand.

 

Junker is to blame for the result, he gave little to Cameron in the way of reforms and stuck his heals in by saying we stay there is no more reforms.

 

Eu is a failing institution.

[Warren]

I see no reason why an issue shouldn't be reversed by further referendum but to have a second vote before the original change has been actioned is undemocratic. Perhaps the labour party could have it in their manifesto at the next general election

 

I think after making a major decision it is a normal mental thought process to see all the downsides and all the upsides of the choice you didn't make. This leads to uncertainty and anxiety. A lot of what we are seeing in people's views is this psychological tendency. Many people started out with views that were marginal - on balance I am 55-45 out. So it is not unexpected I have doubts and see the negative in what I voted for. Another factor is that to make leave successful requires really good project management. Remain is a static choice managing known risks. Leave isn't - it requires major effort to develop world trade, re-invigorate the commonwealth etc. Negotiate with the EU. All of this was enough to see off Boris J alone - he has understood he hasn't got the skills and so too his allies woke up to this. One has to hope that the likely winners of the Tory election May or Leadsom have what it takes. Both know the City of London, Bank of England etc. before becoming politicians and have husbands in that world. So they understand what is at stake in the major part of our economy presently.

[Warren]

Bob geldof ranting at the March, did he ever house the families of refugees that he promised to help?

 

I have no problem with people marching it's free speak and all that, but the result should stand.

 

Junker is to blame for the result, he gave little to Cameron in the way of reforms and stuck his heals in by saying we stay there is no more reforms.

 

Eu is a failing institution.

 

Junker is in effect a civil servant. Tusk is the man who works for the Council of Ministers, on which leaders of the 27/28 sit, and this makes decisions ratified by the EU Parliament. It is they that count politically. It is they that restricted what Cameron got in negotiations.

 

A little of what has come out is the natural setting the scene of the EU officials. They have to state the law and the implied process. Although it appears negative, it isn't necessarily.