Daniel Taylor on Gordon Taylor and Steve Bruce

[robf]

I thought this was a tremendous opinion piece - and well worth a read if you have a few minutes:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/10/gordon-taylor-football-mistruths-pfa-ched-evans

[Aussie Rules]

Seems like the PFA operate in a rarefied atmosphere where even the obscure is a puzzle no one can solve :)

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Similar piece in the MOS yesterday regarding Bruce

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2904883/PATRICK-COLLINS-Steve-Bruce-grotesque-support-Ched-Evans-shows-learned-football.html

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Brilliant article Rob, really shows Bruce and particularly Taylor up for the utter morons they have made themselves look.

[Paul6754]

Graham Taylor has lost it a la Sepp Blatter but I consider Steve Bruce to be brave to stand up and be counted in this debate.

 

I wonder what the view of the journalists would be if it was a member of their family who was in the predicament of CE with the same exact inconsistencies, my guess is their views would be very different.

 

There are two issues here, one is CE's behavior, which is unsavory at best, and the other is the conviction for rape, they are entirely different issues and the behavioral element (following CM if consentual etc etc) shouldn't affect the appeal.

 

If CE's conviction is overturned it will be interesting to view the subsequent events.

[robf]

Graham Taylor has lost it a la Sepp Blatter but I consider Steve Bruce to be brave to stand up and be counted in this debate.

 

I wonder what the view of the journalists would be if it was a member of their family who was in the predicament of CE with the same exact inconsistencies, my guess is their views would be very different.

 

There are two issues here, one is CE's behavior, which is unsavory at best, and the other is the conviction for rape, they are entirely different issues and the behavioral element (following CM if consentual etc etc) shouldn't affect the appeal.

 

If CE's conviction is overturned it will be interesting to view the subsequent events.

 

While I can see your point of view, but surely then the decent thing is to allow the appeal to take place not to proclaim judgement as Bruce appears to have done. ("Ched has got a case"). Especially if you're not legally trained yourself.

 

I work in a firm of solicitors and I was interested to be at a work's lunch where every one said that the appeal will fail. That's not mine nor Steve Bruce's opinion, but the opinion of people with law degrees who have studied the case. But that's not to say they are definitely right - after all, solicitors do lose cases so they could be wrong in this case. My only point is that they have more of a view on this than Bruce as they study the subject and are paid to do so.

 

But everyone has a right to appeal and I am sure Ched Evans feels he has a case. We'll see if my firm's legal brains or Steve Bruce are right when it comes to fruition.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

But everyone has a right to appeal and I am sure Ched Evans feels he has a case. .

 

Or he could be guilty as sin but feels an appeal/review is worth a try..what's he got to lose.

 

I just wish those in the public eye would let the process run its course

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I wonder what the view of the journalists would be if it was a member of their family who was in the predicament of CE with the same exact inconsistencies, my guess is their views would be very different.

 

I wonder what the view of the journalists would be if it was a a member of their family who was in the same predicament of the girl/victim with the same actions of those naming her, hounding her etc, my guess is their views would be that CE and his supporters are an evil bunchand they should let the law run its course.

[The French Connection]

Gordon Taylor is an apology for a Trades Unionist. He was a crap winger in his day for Walsall as well. To think of him earning that sort of money is quite disgusting. He should retire as he's well past his retirement date, and piggin' useless.

[Paul6754]

While I can see your point of view, but surely then the decent thing is to allow the appeal to take place not to proclaim judgement as Bruce appears to have done. ("Ched has got a case"). Especially if you're not legally trained yourself.

 

I work in a firm of solicitors and I was interested to be at a work's lunch where every one said that the appeal will fail. That's not mine nor Steve Bruce's opinion, but the opinion of people with law degrees who have studied the case. But that's not to say they are definitely right - after all, solicitors do lose cases so they could be wrong in this case. My only point is that they have more of a view on this than Bruce as they study the subject and are paid to do so.

 

But everyone has a right to appeal and I am sure Ched Evans feels he has a case. We'll see if my firm's legal brains or Steve Bruce are right when it comes to fruition.

 

I can't remember verbatim what Steve Bruce has said but if he did say "Ched has got a case" I agree with him" and its a brave stance to take given his job and the current climate.

 

I'm not legally qualified but am interested in why your colleagues consider the appeal will fail. Forgive me for saying so but a legal degree is not required to judge and form an opinion on the video of the girl entering/leaving and re-entering etc etc the hotel which is the crucial piece of evidence given the complainants claim to not remember anything after 3am and not remember having sex with either man and the prosecution's main argument that she was too drunk to consent.

 

I'm on vacation with three American guys, all have no interest in soccer whatsoever, none have heard of Ched Evans, none have heard of the case, all have daughters and are 110% guys. I showed them the video with no background information whatsoever and asked if they thought the girl was capable of sexual consent based on her actions when entering/leaving/re-entering the hotel etc, all said yes without hesitation.

 

I feel extremely sorry for the girl but justice should run its course.

[Paul6754]

I wonder what the view of the journalists would be if it was a a member of their family who was in the same predicament of the girl/victim with the same actions of those naming her, hounding her etc, my guess is their views would be that CE and his supporters are an evil bunchand they should let the law run its course.

 

You've answered your own question but I would also anticipate they would expect an appeal if the same inconsistencies and video evidence were around. I have no interest in knowing the girl's name or anything about her.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

You've answered your own question but I would also anticipate they would expect an appeal if the same inconsistencies and video evidence were around. I have no interest in knowing the girl's name or anything about her.

 

I spoke to a legal friend of mine over here (welsh by birth) and he too thinks there is little or no chance of the verdict being over turned so it's possible these inconsistencies aren't as they appear and have been concocted by people siding with Evans whose actions he himself has actually spoken out against.

[robf]

I can't remember verbatim what Steve Bruce has said but if he did say "Ched has got a case" I agree with him" and its a brave stance to take given his job and the current climate.

 

I'm not legally qualified but am interested in why your colleagues consider the appeal will fail. Forgive me for saying so but a legal degree is not required to judge and form an opinion on the video of the girl entering/leaving and re-entering etc etc the hotel which is the crucial piece of evidence given the complainants claim to not remember anything after 3am and not remember having sex with either man and the prosecution's main argument that she was too drunk to consent.

 

I'm on vacation with three American guys, all have no interest in soccer whatsoever, none have heard of Ched Evans, none have heard of the case, all have daughters and are 110% guys. I showed them the video with no background information whatsoever and asked if they thought the girl was capable of sexual consent based on her actions when entering/leaving/re-entering the hotel etc, all said yes without hesitation.

 

I feel extremely sorry for the girl but justice should run its course.

 

I think their argument is from a legal perspective. I believe the case is that unless there is new evidence then the only appeal is that there was some problem with the legal process (i.e. judge was biased/jury was bribed) and as a rule these appeals will not cause an over-ruling of the verdict. In other words, if a judge and jury heard the evidence and came to a decision with all the evidence at hand then there is no case for an appeal to overturn the decision.

 

As I say, I am no legal expert only and this conversation went on for an hour, speckled with examples of other cases (e.g. Blah vs Blah in 1986) and the view was that there is no appeal case to answer.

 

I repeat, I may be wrong and they may be wrong but the point remains that just as you don't expect a cricket fan to be the best judge of football, you can't expect someone with no legal knowledge (e.g. Steve Bruce) to be the best judge of a legal process. He can have a view, yes of course, but for him to use these words "when you look at the case in detail, and I don’t think most people have really... when you do look at the case and look at the evidence then certainly Ched has got a case" is Steve Bruce effectively saying he knows about the legal issues of the case which is not true. He knows as much as the next layperson - he wasn't at the trial, he hasn't studied the law - yet, he's dressing his words up as though he does.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You've answered your own question but I would also anticipate they would expect an appeal if the same inconsistencies and video evidence were around.

 

I doubt it..they'd want the scum who abused her to go down..after all there is no doubt about the identify of those involved so it's not as if they've got the wrong person

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I feel extremely sorry for the girl but justice should run its course.

 

So why doesn't everyone just let that happen?Thise in the oublic eye like Bruce should keep their trap shut adn the website should be closed down

 

Agree that a legal degree is not required to make a judgement nor form an opinion but this isn' a retrial but a review so legal qualifications and experience are very relevant. Their judgements isn't about guilt or innocence but whether there is any reason in law and in the legal process to (in my words) overturn the verdict or cal it into doubt..it's not a new trial.