Manchester dogs home fire

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I find this all a bit pathetic, to be honest.

 

Firstly, the alleged arsonist is 15. A child. So many comments of let's burn him, cut his hands off, hang him (not just on here but all over Fcaebook and the MDH's Just Giving page). His photo has been posted on Facebook, his family have had to be moved and he's not even been tried yet. Again, he's 15 years old. Does anyone know (if he is guilty) why he started the fire, what his intentions were, his state of mind at the time? He might be an incredibly damaged boy. But never mind that, let's get all Springfield on his ass and kill him (or imprison him for a couple of decades).

 

Generally speaking at 15 a lad knows what he is doing

 

Might be some mitigating circumstances, but if not hen he knows what he was doing and should be punished sccordingly

 

Secondly, it is really sad that a few dozen dogs were killed in the fire. I care about animals, have volunteered for animal charities in the past and have been a vegetarian for around 30 years. However, the response to this has been wildly over the top. Nearly 1.5 million pounds donated to this place in little over 24 hours?! And that's not taking in to account the absolute mountains of food and bedding donated. I think a bit of perspective is needed. Presumably the home is insured; why the hell do they need over a million pounds? It might be better to examine why the home had dogs in it in the first place. Also, there are som many deserving places that are crying out for the money; the elderly, the young and the vulnerable had had all services decimated over the last few years, the strikers in Doncaster (for example) have been without pay for approaching 3 months yet people are just chucking cash at a couple of dozen dogs? How many bowls of Chum do they get through? People were actually leaving wreathes outside the home?! Nation of animal lovers? Nation of *****wits, more like.

 

As it was a bunch of individuals making the donations that fact that it added up to so much is not down to them, plus it may be shared out with other homes, i don't know..but wreaths is for me very OTT

[mr.hobblesworth]

Generally speaking at 15 a lad knows what he is doing.

Might be some mitigating circumstances, but if not then he knows what he was doing and should be punished accordingly

 

Yeah, can't argue with that, although I think the first part is maybe debatable.

 

As it was a bunch of individuals making the donations that fact that it added up to so much is not down to them, plus it may be shared out with other homes, i don't know..but wreaths is for me very OTT

 

I think they'd have been well aware of the running total when they donated. It's been all over the news and the Just Giving page (where the money was donated) has a big totaliser at the top. Where I live, even beauticians and book shops were appealing for donations of meat and bedding?! There are posters up all over my workplace asking for money to "help the pooches"! Adults have done this! It's ridiculous.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

yeh but I'm not going to NOT do my bit just cos others have done theirs

 

It has though I agree gone well OTT

[davidatpreston]

I find this all a bit pathetic, to be honest.

 

Firstly, the alleged arsonist is 15. A child. So many comments of let's burn him, cut his hands off, hang him (not just on here but all over Fcaebook and the MDH's Just Giving page). His photo has been posted on Facebook, his family have had to be moved and he's not even been tried yet. Again, he's 15 years old. Does anyone know (if he is guilty) why he started the fire, what his intentions were, his state of mind at the time? He might be an incredibly damaged boy. But never mind that, let's get all Springfield on his ass and kill him (or imprison him for a couple of decades).

 

Secondly, it is really sad that a few dozen dogs were killed in the fire. I care about animals, have volunteered for animal charities in the past and have been a vegetarian for around 30 years. However, the response to this has been wildly over the top. Nearly 1.5 million pounds donated to this place in little over 24 hours?! And that's not taking in to account the absolute mountains of food and bedding donated. I think a bit of perspective is needed. Presumably the home is insured; why the hell do they need over a million pounds? It might be better to examine why the home had dogs in it in the first place. Also, there are som many deserving places that are crying out for the money; the elderly, the young and the vulnerable had had all services decimated over the last few years, the strikers in Doncaster (for example) have been without pay for approaching 3 months yet people are just chucking cash at a couple of dozen dogs? How many bowls of Chum do they get through? People were actually leaving wreathes outside the home?! Nation of animal lovers? Nation of *****wits, more like.

 

 

 

You have no right whatsoever to tell people, or even make strong suggestions about which charities they give their own hard earned money to. If people feel they want to help animals, then this is surely good.

The young,vulnerable and strikers are all good causes, and for my own part I give a little to a number of different charities, for instance St Johns Ambulance. I rather feel that the state should provide for these causes instead of spending so much money on much less deserving (often military) causes, but that is a different argument. The animal charities I know of are desperate for donations and help and get nothing from the state.

 

 

But it is clearly up to each individual what he gives and to which charity. You wouldn't dream or dare to tell people they should give up their pint or not have a meal out, you know what the reaction would be.

I do strongly agree that the reason so many dogs, cats and other pets are abandoned and in the homes needs looking at, and maybe that might be one of the few good things to come out of this.

 

But leaving wreathes is not over the top, and if you want to call people whatever-wits there are a million things worse in this violent and sometimes uncaring world - leaving flowers has always been a way of showing respect, feeling, and camaraderie with those who feel a loss. It gives me hope that there are a lot of good people out there as well as the bad.

 

Of all the hatred and wickedness in this world, its a pity you had to criticise people for showing a nice feeling, If you have to go out of your way to say you think it's 'over the top' then I'm pleased for you that you don't have anything else to worry about in your life.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Ah, grow up, you great sissy.

[philpvfc]

Ah, grow up, you great sissy.

 

Because you were shown to be a d1ck?

[mr.hobblesworth]

How exactly was I shown to be a ****?

 

By pointing out that wanting a 15 year old child to be hanged/ have his hands cut off/ burned is morally abhorrent?

 

By stating that leaving wreaths for a few dozen dead dogs was pretty silly?

 

Or by suggesting that donating nearly 1 1/2 million pounds to a dogs home that had had insurance whilst great swathes of the populace are suffering like never before was a mite excessive?

 

Someone made light of my earlier comment about the Doncaster strikers, but read this... http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/09/care-workers-private-equity-targets-the-nhs...and the tell me that I'm being a **** for suggesting that people could be donating their money to more worthwhile causes.

 

Someone's praising Simon Cowell for donating 1/20000 of his net worth whilst hoping a child gets maimed, yet I'm the ****?! (Incidentally, my comment about 'grow up, you wuss (or whatever it was) wasn't entirely serious).

[davidatpreston]

Ah, grow up, you great sissy.

 

Wow, you really know how to put the boot in, I don't think I've ever been so devastated at being called a name as that.:rolleyes::)

 

But what is sad really is that despite the fact that I probably agree with you on the cause of the strikers, the NHS run-down and a number of other things, you are so narrow minded that you persist in telling people what YOU think is best for them to give their money to.

 

Yes, great swathes of the population are suffering, but under your logic it is wrong for them to get anything, whilst, say, there are people in the world without fresh drinking water. This is terrible in 2014, but any one person can only do so much about it -

 

If you want to undo all the wrongs in the world, then start at home and give up all your own luxuries, sell your TV and laptop give the money to WaterAid, or another charity for the poorest of the poor. If you do that, then I won't have an issue with you using the phrase 'more worthwhile causes' - until then, accept peoples freedom of choice or keep it zipped.

 

You have enough enemies that want to get richer and richer at the expense of the poorest, and if you are so serious about righting wrongs then maybe look elsewhere, without picking fights with gentle and kind people (that's not me, by the way) who leave flowers and do no harm, or donate to stop animals suffering.

 

Simon Cowell can be pretty annoying sometimes, but his gesture was superb and I don't care if he donated 10p or £25k, it was the fact that he helped and gave publicity to the overall plight of these animals that counts.

[mr.hobblesworth]

 

Wow, you really know how to put the boot in, I don't think I've ever been so devastated at being called a name as that.:rolleyes::)

 

Grow a pair you massive nancy.

 

But what is sad really is that despite the fact that I probably agree with you on the cause of the strikers, the NHS run-down and a number of other things, you are so narrow minded that you persist in telling people what YOU think is best for them to give their money to.

 

I haven't "told" a single person how to spend their money. I have come onto a public forum where there is a dicussion on the MDH fire and expressed a belief that the giving is out of proportion, as has at least one other person.

 

Yes, great swathes of the population are suffering, but under your logic it is wrong for them to get anything, whilst, say, there are people in the world without fresh drinking water. This is terrible in 2014, but any one person can only do so much about it -

 

I have never said that the MDH should have got no money; it's the fact that people still felt compelled to donate even when it was apparent that the fund had exceeded it's target that I found bizarre. The sheep like reaction of people and their need to 'belong' to some kind of movement, sentimentality and the anthropomorphism of animals, the belief that on one hand it's ok to call for the death of a 15 year old boy but on the other wittering on about 'rainbow heaven' and, yes, leaving wreaths: that's what I was talking about. If an Immigration Detention facility had burned down, or a prison, would people have been so angry or given so freely? I doubt it very much. But no, it's the fluffy little dogs so lets all cry our bleeding hypocritical hearts dry and chuck some money at it.

 

If you want to undo all the wrongs in the world, then start at home and give up all your own luxuries, sell your TV and laptop give the money to WaterAid, or another charity for the poorest of the poor. If you do that, then I won't have an issue with you using the phrase 'more worthwhile causes' - until then, accept peoples freedom of choice or keep it zipped.

 

Jeez, I do accept people's freedom of choice, I just disagree with what they do with it sometimes, as do most people on this forum. As for the 'keep it zipped' comment, do you genuinely believe that there shouldn't be any debate on things like this? I've never seen/ read you so animated.

 

You have enough enemies that want to get richer and richer at the expense of the poorest, and if you are so serious about righting wrongs then maybe look elsewhere, without picking fights with gentle and kind people (that's not me, by the way) who leave flowers and do no harm, or donate to stop animals suffering.

 

You say gentle and kind people, I say simpletons and moronic sheep.

 

Simon Cowell can be pretty annoying sometimes, but his gesture was superb and I don't care if he donated 10p or £25k, it was the fact that he helped and gave publicity to the overall plight of these animals that counts.

 

Or jumped n a bandwagon just as a new series of X Factor was starting...

[JOHNNYAITCH]

People are free to give however and whatever they wish..and I (and others) am free to have an opinion on their giving.

 

I do think that the laying of wreaths was an OTT reaction but if that's what some people want to do....

[davidatpreston]

Grow a pair you massive nancy.

 

 

My opening remark about never having been so devasted was sarcastic, if you didn't see that then there is real cause for concern in that black hole between your ears.

 

Calling me a nancy not only doesn't bother me, it quite pleases me because it shows you have lost the plot and capitulated when it is clear you have the ability to debate in an articulate manner, even if not in a sensible one.

It does also show that in your twisted mind you associate someone disagreeing with you with your perceived view of their sexuality (as the word is generally used as an anti-gay insult). I think it says far more about you than me, but continue to up the insults, they are at least mildly amusing and far more interesting than anything else you post.

 

As for the rest of the tat- you say you weren't telling people what to do with their money, and then follow it up with telling them what/how to THINK with the following

 

' If an Immigration Detention facility had burned down, or a prison, would people have been so angry or given so freely? I doubt it very much. But no, it's the fluffy little dogs so lets all cry our bleeding hypocritical hearts dry and chuck some money at it.'

 

Clear what you are doing here - hoping someone will say 'yes, that's good less migrants' - well,it wont be me my friend. I feel very sorry for those in the poorer parts of the world who feel they must risk their lives to get to richer places, but that is not connected to liking animals or donating in any way and if you want to argue the rights and wrongs of immigration, this thread is not really the best place.

 

As I said with the providing of fresh water in the third world, how about you take a couple of hapless Somali or Afghans or perhaps Ian Huntly and Rose West into your own palatial home before telling other people what to do.

 

I've also noticed you continually talk of 'a few dozen dead dogs' in the style of the Holocast Deniers who say 'No it wasn't six million jews killed, just a few hundred thousand'. Clever wording to play the numbers down. But then you said you were a vegetarian, and so was Hitler - so that hardly means anything.

 

The other spin is to continually refer to the arsonist murderer (15 years old) as a 'child' and suggest he may have had a damaged upbringing. Fine, if it's down to his parents and you can prove that beyond all doubt, they can be put away for a long time instead or as well. Child in this case means a few months away from being able to kill for your country, be legally sexually active and many other things.

 

And look back through the posts, I personally have not said anything about murdering or maiming your coveted 'child' though I can see why others say it out of anger, I would actually not prefer this country to become another Saudi Arabia.

 

I look forward to your reply, progressing from 'sissy' to 'nancy' and 'grow a pair' whatever witty gem can we expect next, probably 'big fairy' or 'bum bandit'. Try and be a tiny bit more imaginative though, will you ?

 

You can have the pleasure of the last word, as this will be my final post on the subject. I'll just finish by saying how pleased I was and still am to see an outpouring of care, including the wreathes that do no one any harm.

 

I also thank Simon Cowell and don't care whether your poison cynical mind questions his motive, and hope that the kindness of spirit shown here towards the poor creatures that died is continued by people supporting pet and animal charities longer-term.

[cheshirevaliant]

Someone made light of my earlier comment about the Doncaster strikers, but read this... http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/09/care-workers-private-equity-targets-the-nhs...and the tell me that I'm being a **** for suggesting that people could be donating their money to more worthwhile causes.

 

Link doesn't work, though I know the story you are referring to and happen to agree with you. I'm surprised you are sensitive enough to take my earlier comment seriously though. Apologies if you are genuinely offended.

 

Any money to charity is a good thing and different charities will mean more to different people. Somehow ranking them into order of importance is bizarre in my view.

[mr.hobblesworth]

My opening remark about never having been so devasted was sarcastic, if you didn't see that then there is real cause for concern in that black hole between your ears.

 

Calling me a nancy not only doesn't bother me, it quite pleases me because it shows you have lost the plot and capitulated when it is clear you have the ability to debate in an articulate manner, even if not in a sensible one.

It does also show that in your twisted mind you associate someone disagreeing with you with your perceived view of their sexuality (as the word is generally used as an anti-gay insult). I think it says far more about you than me, but continue to up the insults, they are at least mildly amusing and far more interesting than anything else you post.

 

Ha ha! I was aware of your sarcasm; my comment was intended in jest (as was my previous 'slur') and certainly not in a homophobic way. If you took it as such, I can only apologise, assure you that there was no homophobic intent whatsoever and suggest that you grow up, you ****y-knickered fool.

 

 

As for the rest of the tat- you say you weren't telling people what to do with their money, and then follow it up with telling them what/how to THINK with the following

 

'If an Immigration Detention facility had burned down, or a prison, would people have been so angry or given so freely? I doubt it very much. But no, it's the fluffy little dogs so lets all cry our bleeding hypocritical hearts dry and chuck some money at it.'

 

How is that telling people what to "THINK"? I may be mocking their overt sentimentality, their hypocrisy and your own mealy mouthed approach but I've not told a single person how to think, sorry THINK.

 

 

Clear what you are doing here - hoping someone will say 'yes, that's good less migrants' - well,it wont be me my friend. I feel very sorry for those in the poorer parts of the world who feel they must risk their lives to get to richer places, but that is not connected to liking animals or donating in any way and if you want to argue the rights and wrongs of immigration, this thread is not really the best place.

 

I'm not trying to do anything of the sort. I was merely suggesting that those that donated this ridiculous amount of money may not be so 'kind' or 'thoughtful' if the subjects were not so cute and cuddly. I also mentioned prisoners, so why you seem to think I'm trying to debate immigration is beyond me.

 

As I said with the providing of fresh water in the third world, how about you take a couple of hapless Somali or Afghans or perhaps Ian Huntly and Rose West into your own palatial home before telling other people what to do.

 

And as I've said, I've not told anyone what to do. I've mocked and ridiculed the sentimentalising halfwits, sure, but I’ve not instructed or demanded that anyone behave differently. This is a forum for debate, you know?

 

 

I've also noticed you continually talk of 'a few dozen dead dogs' in the style of the Holocast Deniers who say 'No it wasn't six million jews killed, just a few hundred thousand'. Clever wording to play the numbers down. But then you said you were a vegetarian, and so was Hitler - so that hardly means anything.

 

Jesus, are you for real?! 60 dogs were killed. 5 dozen. A few dozen. To compare this to denying the ****ing holocaust?! That’s pretty offensive, to be honest. And I mean properly offensive, not this fake outrage about some mutts getting roasted.

 

 

 

The other spin is to continually refer to the arsonist murderer (15 years old) as a 'child' and suggest he may have had a damaged upbringing. Fine, if it's down to his parents and you can prove that beyond all doubt, they can be put away for a long time instead or as well. Child in this case means a few months away from being able to kill for your country, be legally sexually active and many other things.

 

He is a child. End of. He could be a few months off being prime minister for all I care, at the moment, and at the time of allegedly committing the crime, he is a child.

 

As for proving that he has had a damaged upbringing ‘beyond all doubt’, how about the people sending him death threats, posting his picture on Facebook and saying he should be hanged or maimed, establish his guilt beyond all doubt first.

 

 

And look back through the posts, I personally have not said anything about murdering or maiming your coveted 'child' though I can see why others say it out of anger, I would actually not prefer this country to become another Saudi Arabia.

 

Not everything is about you, David.

 

You can have the pleasure of the last word

 

Wazzock.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Link doesn't work, though I know the story you are referring to and happen to agree with you. I'm surprised you are sensitive enough to take my earlier comment seriously though. Apologies if you are genuinely offended.

 

Any money to charity is a good thing and different charities will mean more to different people. Somehow ranking them into order of importance is bizarre in my view.

 

I wasn't offended in the slightestand haven't suggested that I was. I said you made light of it, which you did. To take from that that I was offended is quite strange!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I've also noticed you continually talk of 'a few dozen dead dogs' in the style of the Holocast Deniers who say 'No it wasn't six million jews killed, just a few hundred thousand'. Clever wording to play the numbers down. But then you said you were a vegetarian, and so was Hitler - so that hardly means anything.

 

House!!!!!!

 

I just won top prize in OVF's "bizarre references bingo"..holocaust deniers, Hitler and his vegetarianism in one paragraph

 

How do i claim my prize ???

 

Did someone in a bizarre way just draw parallels between a holocaust denier and mr.hobblesworth for his commenst on this arson attack? Did I really read that?

 

Good grief!!