Two guilty of Lee Rigby murder.

[TWIGGY]

I see what you mean.thank you for explaining.

going slightly off topic, what are your views on an eye for an eye?

[Guppy 4 England]

Firstly you did say five.

 

There has been one Islamic terrorist attack on UK soil in the last 7-8 years. So what you are saying, is that unless we can come up with a way to make sure terrorism never happens, then you have some how trumped us? So I have to presume that your 'idea' would rid the world of terrorism completely? While you are at it, could you sort out world poverty, war and global warming while you're at it.

Truth is, when you have individuals working alone, who don't care if they die, then you can never stop the threat.

You haven't suggested a workable way of reducing terorrism. Until you can explain how it would work, then there never was a debate to be over, because you haven't out anything out there for the real world. Anyone can suggest mad ideas that are impossible, it doesn't make you the next Pythagoras/Aristotle/capernicus! When you put out ideas such as what you have, then it's for you to substantiate or it can be dismissed. It's not a case of having to come up with a solution to world terrorism or therefore you're right. I might as well say we should design a machine that can read minds so we know when someone is planning an attack. Total nonsense but until you come up with better, checkmate capernicus!

 

There's only been one attack because the others have all been thwarted as I mentioned on about page 5. How many people have to be killed before we do something about it. It will only be a matter of time before something like 911 happens here with the amount of extremists we stupidly still harbour and can't deport because of human rights. I'm sorry but preaching death to another race isn't humane and should result in the loss of your human rights

[Andyregs]

 

There's only been one attack because the others have all been thwarted as I mentioned on about page 5. How many people have to be killed before we do something about it. It will only be a matter of time before something like 911 happens here with the amount of extremists we stupidly still harbour and can't deport because of human rights. I'm sorry but preaching death to another race isn't humane and should result in the loss of your human rights

 

Which is the only way to combat such people as I argued in this thread. Good policing and intelligence. Which I presume you must agree is working well, unless you have a solution to end terrorism for good.

When you have people willing to slaughter and die then you aren't going to stop every single attempt. Unless you claim to have a solution to eradicating terrorism completely. I've never argued against deporting foreign nationals who preach hate and violence. I've just argued against to persecution of whole ethnic groups and pie in the sky 'solutions'.

[Andyregs]

I see what you mean.thank you for explaining.

going slightly off topic, what are your views on an eye for an eye?

 

I'm against it. If we deem an act immoral then should the state carry out those acts? Do we organise state sanction rapes against rapists? If someone kills a child, do we kill their child? Such a legal system would take us back to the dark ages. And what if there is a miscarriage of justice?

Some acts are so atrocious that it pushes those beliefs to the limit (the Ian Watkins case for example). So I understand the urge to want these people to pay for their crimes. And if it was someone close to me, I'd imagine I would call for it too. But I thinks the legal system should be impartial from emotion to ensure its fair for all, and the Riggs of freedoms of everyone shouldn't be massively put at risk to achieve justice (I say massively as civil rights and protection is a delicate balance).

[Paul6754]

 

Which is the only way to combat such people as I argued in this thread. Good policing and intelligence. Which I presume you must agree is working well, unless you have a solution to end terrorism for good.

When you have people willing to slaughter and die then you aren't going to stop every single attempt. Unless you claim to have a solution to eradicating terrorism completely. I've never argued against deporting foreign nationals who preach hate and violence. I've just argued against to persecution of whole ethnic groups and pie in the sky 'solutions'.

 

The comments that you attribute to me in post 123 are not mine, they were posted by "Guppy 4 England", although I do agree with his point "There's only been one attack because the others have all been thwarted".

 

So your solution is just do the same which plainly isn't working even though the security services do a great job. You don't even acknowledge that additional efforts are required, do you not think the muslim communities have a massive part to play in solving this problem and if so, what.

 

The phrase, if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got is very apt in this case.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I don't think you are 'cause I didn't say that either. You are losing your sharpness.

 

I'll quote again what you originally posted

 

"All their families for 5 generations back should be deported from the UK "

 

So you agree with me that people in the UK are and have had their freedoms compromised.

 

i didn't say that i said they may feel that they have

 

The vast, vast majority of UK muslims would have nothing to fear.

 

But not all law abiding muslims..you want to deport law abiding muslims..i care about ALL law abiding uk citizens equally..

 

First time I've heard that phrase. There would be challenges.

 

Really? so what would they be?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So again you agree with my point that there is precedent that a country has gone alone against the EU umbrella.

 

not in a law involving other eu countries..france's decision affected only france

 

 

 

So how do you know those countries wouldn't welcome them with open arms?, especially if that's where their extended family lives.

 

You want to change the law so it's p to you to prove that they will..that your law is as i aid before workable

 

Now you suddenly bring extended families into it? Moving the goalposts again

[stan the man]

Kill them the way they killed Lee hack them to death slit their throats and stand over them laughing

[JOHNNYAITCH]

That's just being daft.

 

deliberately so

 

Something different/a new approach has to be found in addition to what's already being done 'cause the British public will not tolerate this behavior for ever.

 

no one disagrees with your aim, just your solution

 

Policing/intel will suck more and more resources away from where they should be spent as its much more difficult to track down the lone wolf.

 

true

 

Hence the need for the muslim communities to be more proactively involved.

 

yes..and everyone else too

 

Recent events in Tottenham have shown how the death of one man can spark major public disorder, the vast majority of people in the UK of all faiths don't want that, unfortunately there is a small minority that do.

 

agreed

 

There will be push back on whatever is suggested, allegedly the person who first suggested the world was round was laughed at, ridiculed and scorned.

 

agreed

 

I'm all ears JA, lets have your view on how to solve this issue, discussion over 'til you come up with something.

 

i've already told you.

 

there is no magic wand solution and i'm not prepared for us to even consider something that criminalises uk citizens for being related to a muslim who commits such crimes

[JOHNNYAITCH]

 

There's only been one attack because the others have all been thwarted as I mentioned on about page 5.

 

so you agree that intel et stops the majority of attacks?

 

How many people have to be killed before we do something about it.

 

we have done sooooo much..jeez there have been wars to fight back against this

 

It will only be a matter of time before something like 911 happens here with the amount of extremists we stupidly still harbour and can't deport because of human rights.

 

many we cant deport cos they are british and haven't committed a CRIME

 

I'm sorry but preaching death to another race isn't humane and should result in the loss of your human rights

 

it is a crime and gets punished

[JOHNNYAITCH]

 

So your solution is just do the same which plainly isn't working even though the security services do a great job.

 

given that this cannot be stopped completely and current tactics have stopped many attacks then it is working.

 

what's you solution to completely irradicate terrorism?

 

You don't even acknowledge that additional efforts are required, do you not think the muslim communities have a massive part to play in solving this problem and if so, what.

 

i believe he said that earlier

 

The phrase, if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got is very apt in this case.

 

no one is suggesting that we don't put more into policing and intel

[Andyregs]

 

The comments that you attribute to me in post 123 are not mine, they were posted by "Guppy 4 England", although I do agree with his point "There's only been one attack because the others have all been thwarted".

 

So your solution is just do the same which plainly isn't working even though the security services do a great job. You don't even acknowledge that additional efforts are required, do you not think the muslim communities have a massive part to play in solving this problem and if so, what.

 

The phrase, if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got is very apt in this case.

 

I realise they weren't yours, sometimes the quoting goes wrong. You say it clearly isn't working because of one attack. Again, are you suggesting that your 'solution' will get rid of terrorism completely? If not, then it's working very well. Like I said, you haven't suggested a solution yourself yet, unless we are all just going to play make believe.

Of course Muslim communities have a massive part to play. Do you think ripping up their freedoms and criminalising innocent Muslims will help us work together with Muslim communities?

[Andyregs]

Kill them the way they killed Lee hack them to death slit their throats and stand over them laughing

 

It's well thought out, intelligent posts like this that sometimes make me question whether I'm on the wrong side of the debate.

[Boslem Boy]

Wow.

 

Change the word 'Muslim' to 'Jew' and that could have been a post from 1940.

 

Have you thought of building some kind of camp to "contain" them?

 

 

What an absolutely pathetic reply! If you want to criticise me then fair enough, but don't change a word to suit you own ends.You make me out to be some kind of racist by using the word "Jew." You mentioned Jews, I didn't. If you check the history books of WWll you will see that Jews were persecuted by Nazi Germany and over 6 million were murdered. Can you explain to me how my post discussing Muslim extremists in the 21st Century has any comparison to the Jewish genocide? Has any European Government killed Muslim extremists in relation to your example of 1940? To compare my post to what happened in WWll is probably the most ridiculous post I've ever read on here.............................. And that's saying something!!!!

 

OMG..we don't have to 'beat a religion' we just have to deal with the extremists

 

Actually you're wrong. It is the religion and it's radical followers who have issues with America and its Allies that are preaching hatred and that hatred is converting normal people of all religions to become a Muslim with extremist views. Those views result in the various atrocities that we have witnessed not only in this Country, but all over the world.

 

I have many friends & work with a lot of people who are Muslim. Even those people born in this Country class themselves as Muslim or Asian. Surely if you are born in Britain, then you are British? I am not knocking the religion I am knocking the extremists who preach hatred within that religion to murder innocent people which is what this post is all about.

 

America "declared war" on Al-Qaeda in 2001, Al-Qaeda are known as a "multinational stateless army, a radical Muslim movement." They don't belong to or operate from any one country. They are a religious body of people united by their faith.

 

So can you explain to me how "we just deal with the extremists" when those extremists live in many, many Countries. Some of those Countries have no loyalty to Britain and we carry no weight in their political policies? We have been fighting these extremists for over a decade and still soldiers/civilians are being killed. We can't beat the extremists because the Muslim faith and its radical followers are recruiting new people all the time.

 

Sorry for the history lesson but I don't think you fully understood my post.

 

You won't ever beat a religion, history proves that. So how can you possibly beat the extremists within that religion that live in Countries on other Continents. We've spent 12 years, lost hundreds of lives and wasted billions of pounds trying. The death of Lee Rigby proves we're even failing to "deal with the extremists" in our own back yard!

[TWIGGY]

I'm against it. If we deem an act immoral then should the state carry out those acts? Do we organise state sanction rapes against rapists? If someone kills a child, do we kill their child? Such a legal system would take us back to the dark ages. And what if there is a miscarriage of justice?

Some acts are so atrocious that it pushes those beliefs to the limit (the Ian Watkins case for example). So I understand the urge to want these people to pay for their crimes. And if it was someone close to me, I'd imagine I would call for it too. But I thinks the legal system should be impartial from emotion to ensure its fair for all, and the Riggs of freedoms of everyone shouldn't be massively put at risk to achieve justice (I say massively as civil rights and protection is a delicate balance).

 

thats fair enough, but do you agree with if you take a life then yours should be taken by imprisonment?as in never come out?i think capital punishment is too risky, too many wrongful arrests in the past.