Messi alleged tax fraud

[Warren]

I believe there is no moral imperative with tax. Everyone is entitled to look upon it as a business transaction and to make reasonable efforts within the law to minimise their liability.

[Warren]

That's the point we are making and why it makes him look greedy. So what if its no big deal to him.

 

Messi is a footballer and relies on his advisers. He is a guy who has a staggering level of honesty on the field in the punishment he tolerates and he is active in charity work in support of Barcelona. I expect this will be worked out and settlement reached.

[Andyregs]

I believe there is no moral imperative with tax. Everyone is entitled to look upon it as a business transaction and to make reasonable efforts within the law to minimise their liability.

 

So those with the most money and means to do so can get away with it? Fits in with a staggering honesty and charity work though I suppose.

Anyway, I thought the whole point was that it was outside the law?

 

Messi is a footballer and relies on his advisers. He is a guy who has a staggering level of honesty on the field in the punishment he tolerates and he is active in charity work in support of Barcelona. I expect this will be worked out and settlement reached.

 

Seen him dive a couple of times. Not sure how that's relevant to his tax dodging though?

[Santa]

I believe there is no moral imperative with tax. Everyone is entitled to look upon it as a business transaction and to make reasonable efforts within the law to minimise their liability.

For a buddhist, I find your materialism and lack of ethics quite staggering.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Under Spain's law he and his advisers have two months to agree to negotiate a settlement and only after that does a trial occur. Messi has income of around 37 million euros yearly, so this is not a big deal for him.

 

The point is it's a big deal to the hard pressed Spanish tax payer that is paying what he/she is due to pay and the law...who cares if it's not a big deal to Messi..irrelevant

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I believe there is no moral imperative with tax. Everyone is entitled to look upon it as a business transaction and to make reasonable efforts within the law to minimise their liability.

 

As long as they do it legally (and most people avoid tax when they can)..the point is he is accused of NOT doing so legally

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Messi is a footballer and relies on his advisers. He is a guy who has a staggering level of honesty on the field in the punishment he tolerates and he is active in charity work in support of Barcelona. I expect this will be worked out and settlement reached.

 

None of that means he isn't guilty. I've no idea if he is or not but how he conducts homself in every other aspect of his life is irrelevant...what next "He seems like a nice chap and doesn't seem like a villain so, off you go and don't do it again"!!??!!!

[Andyregs]

For a buddhist, I find your materialism and lack of ethics quite staggering.

 

Religion is always helpful when used to judge others.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Just heard that allegedly Alonso and Ozil(?) of Madrid have been charged with the same thing...others under investigation yet to be named

[Andyregs]

For a buddhist, I find your materialism and lack of ethics quite staggering.

 

I thought being truthful and not being greedy would be a more buddhist view point?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Warren, I'm no expert on Buddhism but aren't charity, being truthful, and avoiding greediness at it's core?. Given the importance of these core values, I would say that Buddhists might want to think about tax strategies that are in line with their beliefs, such as tax deductions for charitable donations, and taking advantage of the limited-time hybrid car tax credit as one way to help save energy. ..in other words Buddhists should try and avoid avoidance thru such mechanisms...so there is a moral aspect.

 

Nowt to do tie Messi as such but for me there is a moral aspect to taxation..don't take advantage of tax 'loopholes' that are counter to one's morals...don't take advantage of charitable donations to save tax for example if one genuinely believes in doing good thru taxable donations.

[Pete T]

This is what I don't understand. I'd be less bothered about doing it if I had so much money. I'd be more understanding if someone on minimum wage did it. This is just greedy considering his wages.

 

Yup , Get your point. I think I am saying that if you are a footballer and can afford, say, 200,000 Euros fee to a clever accountant and his lawyer, then you can save, say 4M Euros. The same footballing genius is not micromanaging his tax - he just has a manager (Mr. 10 to 15%) who tells him "dunner worry, the best blokes in Spain are on the case, you wunner pay any more than absolutely necessary, that's why they cost so much". If you are on min wage you don't get that sort of advice, cos you got no access to expensive accountants and lawyers. Your tax avoidance will be er, less sophisticated.

[Andyregs]

Yup , Get your point. I think I am saying that if you are a footballer and can afford, say, 200,000 Euros fee to a clever accountant and his lawyer, then you can save, say 4M Euros. The same footballing genius is not micromanaging his tax - he just has a manager (Mr. 10 to 15%) who tells him "dunner worry, the best blokes in Spain are on the case, you wunner pay any more than absolutely necessary, that's why they cost so much". If you are on min wage you don't get that sort of advice, cos you got no access to expensive accountants and lawyers. Your tax avoidance will be er, less sophisticated.

 

Totally understand the reasoning, and why it's easier. Maybe having lots of money's make you that way. I'll let you know when I win the euro millions on Friday.

[Warren]

For a buddhist, I find your materialism and lack of ethics quite staggering.

 

There is no ethical imperative in socialism, communism, liberalism etc. People in government from those backgrounds impose taxes from their world view which everyone has. So if the French President is elected and imposes a top tax rate of 75% as he has that is his world view and may be shared by those who voted for him. They want to take other people's money and spend on themselves to obtain a higher standard of living and that is as potentially greedy as not paying taxes that are due. It is a business world view and not a moral one or an ethical one. The people who have to pay these high taxes from their wealth have their world view which may be in disagreement that tax rates like that are fair, may be of the view that they would like control over how their money is spent and saved in the economy and may have a view about how charitable they want to be. Bill Gates, one of the wealthiest people of all, is setting out to give way most of his fortune before he dies to charitable causes. The important thing to note is that he wants control of how that is done and he won't be trusting the US Government to do it for him.

[JohnJames]

I believe there is no moral imperative with tax. Everyone is entitled to look upon it as a business transaction and to make reasonable efforts within the law to minimise their liability.

 

When you are on PAYE you don't get the chance. The rich ******* ought to pay up end of.