Evolution v Creationism

[JohnJames]

It looks like politicians are prepared in the UK outside Northern Ireland to reduce the 23 week limit but not to adopt the law as it is in Northern Ireland and which I support. So given that I think matters can be improved by strengthening accountability and responsibility.

 

A woman going for abortion should be required to give a name to the child. This will reduce the way of thinking that involves calling the unborn child an "it". The doctors giving certification should be required to have clinics with the woman and not allowed to sign off mental health issue justifications blind. The woman should sign an agreement to abortion that includes the name of the child - "I agree to the abortion of John Smith" etc. There should be a new form of death certificate for abortions that is filed in the same way as death certificates and is a matter of public record including the name of the aborted child and the name or the mother.

 

I accept there is some risk to the woman having the abortion in this. There is a need for a criminal offence to ward of any physical threats being made against the woman. But the woman should be made to account for her actions and should not be able to hide behind anonymity.

 

Your ability to talk **** is commensurate with your prejudice

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I dont see it as an attack at all..... just a statement.

 

It's whether the mods see it as an attack or not that is what countsin my opinion some of them have been but it's up to the mods, not you and not me

[JOHNNYAITCH]

More mysogynist nonsense from OVF's resident buddhist bigot.

 

Once again, women are apparently to blame, and now we should apparently criminalise them for controlling their own bodies.

 

But the whole point is that this is not just about their body it's about an unborn baby and his/her body

 

I don't get how anyone can go on about choice when the unborn baby is given no choice in whether it is kiled or not

 

Men's responsibilities, yet again, remain invisible from the analysis of the pro-life lobby.

 

In what way?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If you were female you would not have the above views, what about the role of the father in the above. Those are sexist opinions that belong in the middle ages.

 

 

I see a contradiction in going on about the woman's right to choose and then going on about the role of the father. Every year 100s of men have their children aborted against their will.

 

What exactly do you mean by 'what about the role of the father in the abov e'?

[aspins-revenge]

The pro-life lobby support (as represented on this site by Warren and JA) seem to be supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where women have been raped.

 

Such attitudes demean women in positioning them as merely receptacles for male pro-creation and demonise women as 'evil' for making decisions which men never have to.

 

As for personal attacks on Warren, as some-one who teaches, campaigns and writes about issues of equality, I reserve the right to challenge racial, religious, gender and homophobic bigotry at every turn, on this site, and elsewhere. This is not in breach of OVF rules and regulations, nor is it in wider society.

[JohnJames]

The pro-life lobby support (as represented on this site by Warren and JA) seem to be supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where women have been raped.

 

Such attitudes demean women in positioning them as merely receptacles for male pro-creation and demonise women as 'evil' for making decisions which men never have to.

 

As for personal attacks on Warren, as some-one who teaches, campaigns and writes about issues of equality, I reserve the right to challenge racial, religious, gender and homophobic bigotry at every turn, on this site, and elsewhere. This is not in breach of OVF rules and regulations, nor is it in wider society.

 

Well said old bean:clap:

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The pro-life lobby support (as represented on this site by Warren and JA) seem to be supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where women have been raped.

 

I am not..I am trying to stop the state sponsored killing of unborn babies

 

Such attitudes demean women in positioning them as merely receptacles for male pro-creation and demonise women as 'evil' for making decisions which men never have to.

 

I have no such attitudes

 

As for personal attacks on Warren, as some-one who teaches, campaigns and writes about issues of equality, I reserve the right to challenge racial, religious, gender and homophobic bigotry at every turn, on this site, and elsewhere. This is not in breach of OVF rules and regulations, nor is it in wider society.

 

I reserve that right also and have attacked Warren's posts frequently and wuill conti nue to do so where I eel it is warranted. As to whetrher you are in breach of OVF rules that is not your decision to make..that is for the mods to decide

 

 

IMO some of the posts on here do however break the rules of OVF and where I believe that to be the case I have reported them for the mods to adjudicate

 

I hope that others do the same

[Andyregs]

The pro-life lobby support (as represented on this site by Warren and JA) seem to be supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where women have been raped.

 

Such attitudes demean women in positioning them as merely receptacles for male pro-creation and demonise women as 'evil' for making decisions which men never have to.

 

As for personal attacks on Warren, as some-one who teaches, campaigns and writes about issues of equality, I reserve the right to challenge racial, religious, gender and homophobic bigotry at every turn, on this site, and elsewhere. This is not in breach of OVF rules and regulations, nor is it in wider society.

 

Apparently tolerating gays, women and other minority groups and not breaking any laws on diversity is something to be proud of. But when talking about abortion, the law is irrelevant?

No comment on the nine year old girl either?

[aspins-revenge]

In trying to stop the killing of 'unborn babies' you are supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where they have been raped.

 

All pro-life perspectives are underpinned by a lack of respect for gender equality, because through words and actions they deprioritise the right of a woman to make her own decisions about her own body.

 

You seem to be arguing that I cannot decide what is and what is not a breach of OVF regulations whilst stating that you can: ''some of the posts do however break the rules of OVF' (JA: post above)

[JohnJames]

Any way back to creationism..There is no God so that fails. End of.

Bring back the Magdalene laundry's that'll sort out the harlots who lie with men and get pregnant(That was an ironic sentence)

[JOHNNYAITCH]

In trying to stop the killing of 'unborn babies' you are supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies, even in cases where they have been raped.

 

No I am not....I am trying to stop the killing of unborn babies..the state should no more have the right to kill them than it should to kill anyone else. By yuor reckoning a mother should be able to have an abortion right up until birth ? It's her body after all?

 

You saying that a baby should lose its right to live cos of the circumstances in which is was conceived? That really is the state controlling lives

 

Pro-life perspectives are underpinned by a lack of respect for gender equality, because through words and actions they deprioritise the right of a woman to make her own decisions about her own body.

 

Rubbish.. my pro life stance is driven by a respect for all human life..I could not be more in favour of equality. You however appear to be advocating that in some circumstances one unborn uman should not be treated in the same way as another just cos of how it was conceived.

 

The decision is made about the body of the unborn baby...to kill t

 

You seem to be arguing that I cannot decide what is and what is not a breach of OVF regulations whilst stating that you can: ''some of the posts do however break the rules of OVF' (JA: post above)

 

Rubbish. The full quote of what I posted is

 

"IMO some of the posts on here do however break the rules of OVF and where I believe that to be the case I have reported them for the mods to adjudicate"

 

So I don't decide if OVF rules have been broken..the mods do. Why did you not include the full post? Or even the full sentence?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

AS JJ said..back on track

 

Evolution is a cert..the only real oustanding issues is how life came to be..hopefully one day we will know. But I don't belive that it was by some creator..or God of some sort

[Paul6754]

I see a contradiction in going on about the woman's right to choose and then going on about the role of the father. Every year 100s of men have their children aborted against their will.

 

What exactly do you mean by 'what about the role of the father in the abov e'?

 

I don't see any contradiction at all in asking a simple question of the poster of post #521, your question would be better asked of the OP.

 

We've had this debate recently over pro- and anti-choice and came to an impass, no point in going over it again. I only replied to post #521 due to the blatant undertones of disrespect to women.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I don't see any contradiction at all in asking a simple question of the poster of post #521, your question would be better asked of the OP.

 

I have no need to ask anyone about your post other than you

 

I raised the issue of if the huge contradiction in respecting the woman's right to choose whether the unborn baby lives or dies whilst the father has no absolute say in whether his her son/daughter lives or dies

 

We've had this debate recently over pro- and anti-choice and came to an impass, no point in going over it again.

 

I disagree..there are always things for people either side of the debate to learn

 

I only replied to post #521 due to the blatant undertones of disrespect to women.

 

I see no blatant undertones of disrespect to women...all I see is trying to treat the unborn child with respect..whether I agree with the detail or not is a different matter.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

In trying to stop the killing of 'unborn babies' you are supporting state sanctioned control over women's bodies,

 

So you believe that abortion should be allowed right up until birth? Surely if the state says a woman cannot have an abortion after X weeks that is state sanctioned control over her body just as apparently it is to say so after conception?