The definition of insanity.... (and how this relates to Andy Crosby)

[Connolly]

It's not exactly a official fa coaching badge... But having played football manager, I think I can see what they're trying to do behind the scene. Committing to a philosophy and that. I think it's more of a long term plan.. if so I'm assuming the academy is working to towards it too. 

Over coming years It's unlikely we will be able lure many proven championship / league 1 players, not in the peak age (21-29) with proven fitness and injury records atleast...  More likely to go to the likes of hollywood fc and other lowly clubs with bottomless pockets.

Our Academy may not be the ultimate answer, but it could a big part of the clubs future and bring sustainability, however Its unlikely too provide instant success. Perhaps with a committed philosophy, they are hoping transitioning these lads into the first team will be smoother? If I was a young player I'd want to join us over the other local clubs knowing I may get a craic. Man City & Chelsea can't sign them all..

Rest of the squad is likely to be well scouted chancers, who have the attributes and experience & character to work in the philosophy. Nothing's certain at this level but I'm trusting the scouting network for now, I'm sure rudgie is still helping the team with his experience. The likes of Chiz, for example, looks a gem of signing and a well liked character in dressing room. 

I think ollie and devine will be good patrons for us once they leave, luring other youngsters fancying a craic on loan. We are a perfect stepping stone for the talent from bigger clubs, who play a similar a philosophy.

I do think they could do with working on a better plan b tactic though. I do see small changes in games going against us, perhaps not brazen enough,  Something to work on in the next pre season perhaps. Yesterday was very disappointing, but  let's be honest Boro were clinical. 

I'm sure they'll be just disappointed as us, and will wanna bounce back. Anyway I'm probably a fool talking out my hole .. but one things for sure....

Again we go, Super Vale Away this Saturday.. the definition of insanity

In Crosby I trust

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Connolly

[Powerline]

The problem I have, is people say he’s learning, but actual evidence shows that he’s not.

Against Lincoln we sat back and conceded and he said it was his fault and we’d learn from it. We then did the same thing against Stevenage, same thing happens again.

And then just look at the terrible league run - it was the same every game. Nothing there to show that he’d learned from the defeats. 

[Brian Johnson]

4 hours ago, mbycars said:

Lee Bell definitely would not come to the Vale.

Why not?

[mbycars]

1 minute ago, Brian Johnson said:

Why not?

 

1 minute ago, Brian Johnson said:

Why not?

He despises the Vale. Local from Alsager and is known by a few Vale fans who have stated this. We were interested in him once as a player and he wouldn't even consider it.

[AndyGeorge]

10 hours ago, Vtid said:

I don't like seeing us stick with managers who clearly aren't good enough either. He's not a manager he never has been & wont be after his reign at Vale eventually does end because it will, it's a matter of when not if. Let's see where he ends up when he does go whenever that may be. Can guarantee he won't end up at a football league club. No body expected us to beat boro last night but some were just walking around at times it was terrible. I expected us to be outplayed most of the game & that proved to be the case. So why try to out play them 😅 madness 

Yes, I get it but how do we attract a better manager on oatcake budget? Glitz and glamour of Burslem Town? They're not exactly queuing up. Do you have any suggestions?

[Vtid]

1 minute ago, AndyGeorge said:

Yes, I get it but how do we attract a better manager on oatcake budget? Glitz and glamour of Burslem Town? They're not exactly queuing up. Do you have any suggestions?

How would you know we didn't even entertain interviewing any to start with which in itself is unbelievable when you think about it. There's a few out there who have experience that's what AC massively lacks in & it shows a lot of the time & is what we need. I'm not gonna start reeling names off. Who we would replace him with is a job for Flickers and that's another concern i suppose 

[AndyGeorge]

5 hours ago, fuzzyvalefan said:

OK the definition of insanity thing is just a well known saying. I'm not saying he is clinically insane.

And you are completely missing my point. We are on oatcake budgets as you rightly said so why are we trying to play like Man City. I mean it all boils down to the fact that Andy Crosby is a coach and not a manager. He wants the talented young players we have to be schooled in playing football in the right way by playing a passing game. That is the perfect attitude to have for a coach but what good does it do Port Vale if in 3/4 times those players are playing in the Premier League and we are in non league because their development was more important than the club putting points on the board. I'm all for passing football but let's keep it to the final third as we are not good enough to do it all over the park. A good manager will always find a balance between player development and finding a way to put points on the board, a good coach is only concerned with player development. I'm sorry but even though i like the bloke it's becoming apparent that he cannot find that balance. By all means convince me that I'm wrong but I can't see anything else.

Yes, I do get that and nothing like the decent managers we've had in the past who are much more game savvy. AC's what we've got though and we've definitely seen worse. I'd expect the club always to be looking for upgrades in every area of the setup but I do wonder how we could entice a battle hardened manager. Any ideas who might be a good fit?

[AndyGeorge]

12 minutes ago, Vtid said:

How would you know we didn't even entertain interviewing any to start with which in itself is unbelievable when you think about it. There's a few out there who have experience that's what AC massively lacks in & it shows a lot of the time & is what we need. I'm not gonna start reeling names off. Who we would replace him with is a job for Flickers and that's another concern i suppose 

I wouldn't. AC is a gamble. It might not pay off. I'd be happier a better manager meant less risk of a drop but I can't think of any who would come here.

[Vtid]

10 minutes ago, AndyGeorge said:

I wouldn't. AC is a gamble. It might not pay off. I'd be happier a better manager meant less risk of a drop but I can't think of any who would come here.

fair point 👍🏻 

[andy jones]

11 hours ago, AndyGeorge said:

fuzzyvalefan, I get your points but we are on oatcake budgets. We probably would even be on that if it wasn't for our current owners.

According to transfermarkt, the total value of the Middlesbrough 27 man squad is roughly £50 million. Vale's 25 man squad is roughly £5 million.

You could see that on the pitch tonight.

AC is not insane, his approach is consistent which has worked out in the last couple of league games.

We're just not that good.

Even so, I'd rather be Vale. I don't like to see us calling for the sacking of managers like the deckchairs down the road.

UTV

So why the hell did he try and take Boro on at their own game when even a blind man could see what the outcome would be?

[fuzzyvalefan]

Yes, I do get that and nothing like the decent managers we've had in the past who are much more game savvy. AC's what we've got though and we've definitely seen worse. I'd expect the club always to be looking for upgrades in every area of the setup but I do wonder how we could entice a battle hardened manager. Any ideas who might be a good fit?

Someone with experience and a bit of nous and savvy who knows how to play good football but also knows when you need to double down and get in oppositions faces.

Just realised that pretty much describes Darrell Clarke perfectly. I get Vale aren't a glamorous draw but we attracted Micky Adams, an experienced manager with several promotions on his Cv and that was with a board of directors nowhere near as good as what we have now.

At the end of the day there are only 92 football league manager jobs in the country. They are like goldust.

[Warren]

We lost v Middlesbrough by an unlucky deflection, bad mistake in possession at the back and letting a player come inside and shoot. We were lucky that Balmer didn't gift them more goals before the manager subbed him. 

The stats are we had 39% possession making 4 shots with 1 on target. That's not going to win games. But Middlesbrough need some credit. You could see they had good defenders and showed it in the way they blocked crosses off. They only made one big mistake and it was Massey who just couldn't keep down the hard hit cross reaching out close to the line. 

Middlesbrough dominated possession. 618 passes. What stood out for me watching from Lorne Street was they were technically superior by quite a distance in controlling and manipulating the ball. They also had better player movement in the team to receive the ball in play. They could play quicker than PV in possession because of these factors. 

Middlesbrough were happy to make sure PV didn't harm them and did this by simply keeping possession. But their attacking stats are 10 shots, 5 on target and 3 goals. So they were potent. 

I can't say whether their great superiority is simply better players with more talent. Or whether better coaching plays a significant part. What did strike me, and worry me a bit, is that Walters looked out of his depth when he came on. So the point I'm making is he would improve much quicker and to a higher level at Middlesbrough.

If we are going to keep the players we bringing through and progress as a club we need coaching to be at Championship level. I don't see that presently at team level or individual level. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Warren

[Guest]

I'm.no expert on football but a manager who plays the same system over and over again is eventually going be found out .

A good teams manager can change a game while in is in progress and also change a system so that the team can get the better of the opposition .

Crosby is not a manager ,he is a coach .

Last night was the final straw he as been in charge long enough now to have made a difference the facts speak for themselves worst performing club in league 1 2023 .

Last night's performance has finished me off with him it was atrocious considering what was at stake .

He is the manager uts his job get them fired up .

There was no fire on that pitch last night 

Crosby out 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Devine intervention

[WV]

14 minutes ago, Warren said:

We lost v Middlesbrough by an unlucky deflection, bad mistake in possession at the back and letting a player come inside and shoot. We were lucky that Balmer didn't gift them more goals before the manager subbed him. 

The stats are we had 39% possession making 4 shots with 1 on target. That's not going to win games. But Middlesbrough need some credit. You could see they had good defenders and showed it in the way they blocked crosses off. They only made one big mistake and it was Massey who just couldn't keep down the hard hit cross reaching out close to the line. 

Middlesbrough dominated possession. 618 passes. What stood out for me watching from Lorne Street was they were technically superior by quite a distance in controlling and manipulating the ball. They also had better player movement in the team to receive the ball in play. They could play quicker than PV in possession because of these factors. 

Middlesbrough were happy to make sure PV didn't harm them and did this by simply keeping possession. But their attacking stats are 10 shots, 5 on target and 3 goals. So they were potent. 

I can't say whether their great superiority is simply better players with more talent. Or whether better coaching plays a significant part. What did strike me, and worry me a bit, is that Walters looked out of his depth when he came on. So the point I'm making is he would improve much quicker and to a higher level at Middlesbrough.

If we are going to keep the players we bringing through and progress as a club we need coaching to be at Championship level. I don't see that presently at team level or individual level. 

Have to disagree that walters looked out of his depth. 

[Warren]

4 minutes ago, WV said:

Have to disagree that walters looked out of his depth. 

He could have looked out of his depth in a struggling team to be fair. But from the Lorne Street, where I get to watch the build up play from the back, Middlesbrough players were technically much better. Also defensively they bidded their time whilst PV players were running and doing tricky dicky stuff and then consistently tackled them. Hence we achieved nearly nothing in attack. There was a huge gulf in class between the teams. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Warren