The definition of insanity.... (and how this relates to Andy Crosby)

[fuzzyvalefan]

...they say is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Andy Crosby has one way of playing and one way only and while the he wants to play is admirable there comes a time when you have to realise it isnt working because we are not getting results.  It is no co-incidence that most of our wins came at the stawayrt of the season.  This passing style is markedly different from last season and we caught teams off guard.  Once it became apparent that this was the only style we were willing to adopt then we became very predictable and the only two league wins we have picked up since are when weve played teams so poor that we were able to out-football them.  Think of games when we have dominated possession and looked the better side only to lose- Shrewsbury, Burton in the league and Stevenage in the cup replay just two of countless examples.  Another problem with this approach is that our build up is so slow that when we do launch at attack there are usually 9 or 10 men behind the ball which is very difficult to break down.  The only way to do that is if every pass is perfect and that is a very rare thing to happen with League 1 players, hence the lack of goals.  Essentially for those last 2 league wins we were good enough to out football them on the day.  Again, as League 1 players that consistency of accuracy is rare, hence the lack of times the approach has worked.  Of course, poorer sides give you more room to play in and more time on the ball allowing a greater margin of error.  Now in this situation, any manager worth his salt (Darrell was a master at this tbh) sees the desired approach isnt going to work today and changes it, puts on the press, gives the opposition no time on the ball and gets stuck in, goes more physical and more direct.  Its not pretty but sometimes its the only way to get the points.  Aston Villa recently gave a masterclass of this approach against Man City.  They were never going to be able to outfootball them so they needed another approach to try and win it.  By not giving them a second on the ball, it gave City less time and space to play and forced mistakes which Villa were able to capitalize on.  Faith in your desired approach is admirable, but when that faith becomes blind faith despite all the evidence to the contrary and common sense fails to take over we are in dangerous territory and so we we go back to insanity.  That inability to abandon your principles despite all the evidence that your principles are doing you harm.  Why would you continue to do something that is harming you.  Insanity.  And as far as Andy and his job is concerned, in my opinion, irreversible harm has been done.  The only two performances where he did something different in recent months were Mansfield and Burton away, both in the cups.  Which therefore astounds me that we let Middlesbrough walk all over us without laying a glove on them tonight.  What could we possibly have lost by altering the approach.  Now we are out of all the cups, all we are left with is our league form since September and that is very bleak indeed.

Edited December 20, 2023 by fuzzyvalefan

[MelbourneValiant]

I don't think beating nine man Oxford with a penalty, Carlisle with a penalty, and lowly Reading with a deflection is catching teams off guard. 

We have been atrocious all season. That blind ball bag should have gone at the end of October and that is being very generous. People were wondering why tickets weren't selling......well tonight is why. People wondering why it wasn't on TV, I wouldn't make my worst enemy watch that bilge.

[dazzerjames]

Had a drink have we ? 😂 embarrassing post and second response 

[fuzzyvalefan]

Well yes I have had a drink, many drinks but none since February. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for 10 months so well done for making light of that. Even chaired my first AA meeting last week. I have also been to virtually every match this season and not a single drop of alcohol or any mind altering substance has been in my body for any of them. I suspect given your comment that you cannot say the same. So I would suggest my recollection of the season is pretty damn accurate. I invite you to re read my post and point out exactly what you disagree with. I don't post very often so this is a summary of my thoughts over the last few months so it's length is fairly reasonable. The irony is I suspect it's u who has embarrassed yourself when u re read the thread. But again, pick out the points you disagree with.

[Vtid]

47 minutes ago, fuzzyvalefan said:

Well yes I have had a drink, many drinks but none since February. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for 10 months so well done for making light of that. Even chaired my first AA meeting last week. I have also been to virtually every match this season and not a single drop of alcohol or any mind altering substance has been in my body for any of them. I suspect given your comment that you cannot say the same. So I would suggest my recollection of the season is pretty damn accurate. I invite you to re read my post and point out exactly what you disagree with. I don't post very often so this is a summary of my thoughts over the last few months so it's length is fairly reasonable. The irony is I suspect it's u who has embarrassed yourself when u re read the thread. But again, pick out the points you disagree with.

Well done on the 10 months champ 👊🏻 i'm in recovery myself, your post is a good account of the season to be fair. We've looked pretty at times but i can't think of a game where we've blown anyone away with this football he's implicating. Wigan last time out maybe but even then we nearly blew it again. I'm like a broken record but so are his tactics & way of playing. It's the inability to change a game of football once they've crossed that white line that's most concerning for me. Completely out of his depth, he's got no personality i'm not actually suprised he couldn't get them fired up for this. Imagine him in the team talk he could send a glass eye to sleep! 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Vtid

[AndyGeorge]

32 minutes ago, fuzzyvalefan said:

Well yes I have had a drink, many drinks but none since February. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for 10 months so well done for making light of that. Even chaired my first AA meeting last week. I have also been to virtually every match this season and not a single drop of alcohol or any mind altering substance has been in my body for any of them. I suspect given your comment that you cannot say the same. So I would suggest my recollection of the season is pretty damn accurate. I invite you to re read my post and point out exactly what you disagree with. I don't post very often so this is a summary of my thoughts over the last few months so it's length is fairly reasonable. The irony is I suspect it's u who has embarrassed yourself when u re read the thread. But again, pick out the points you disagree with.

fuzzyvalefan, I get your points but we are on oatcake budgets. We probably would even be on that if it wasn't for our current owners.

According to transfermarkt, the total value of the Middlesbrough 27 man squad is roughly £50 million. Vale's 25 man squad is roughly £5 million.

You could see that on the pitch tonight.

AC is not insane, his approach is consistent which has worked out in the last couple of league games.

We're just not that good.

Even so, I'd rather be Vale. I don't like to see us calling for the sacking of managers like the deckchairs down the road.

UTV

[Vtid]

11 minutes ago, AndyGeorge said:

fuzzyvalefan, I get your points but we are on oatcake budgets. We probably would even be on that if it wasn't for our current owners.

According to transfermarkt, the total value of the Middlesbrough 27 man squad is roughly £50 million. Vale's 25 man squad is roughly £5 million.

You could see that on the pitch tonight.

AC is not insane, his approach is consistent which has worked out in the last couple of league games.

We're just not that good.

Even so, I'd rather be Vale. I don't like to see us calling for the sacking of managers like the deckchairs down the road.

UTV

I don't like seeing us stick with managers who clearly aren't good enough either. He's not a manager he never has been & wont be after his reign at Vale eventually does end because it will, it's a matter of when not if. Let's see where he ends up when he does go whenever that may be. Can guarantee he won't end up at a football league club. No body expected us to beat boro last night but some were just walking around at times it was terrible. I expected us to be outplayed most of the game & that proved to be the case. So why try to out play them 😅 madness 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Vtid

[JoeB2]

We might as well just google the Transfermarkt squad values pre-game and decide the result from that, saving everyone the bother.

[RayWalkers40yarder]

5 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

I don't think beating nine man Oxford with a penalty, Carlisle with a penalty, and lowly Reading with a deflection is catching teams off guard. 

We have been atrocious all season. That blind ball bag should have gone at the end of October and that is being very generous. People were wondering why tickets weren't selling......well tonight is why. People wondering why it wasn't on TV, I wouldn't make my worst enemy watch that bilge.

this is absolutely SPOT ON. he shouldve gone after lincoln and thats a fact . unfortunately with flitcroft in place this is going to keep happening again and again. its what happens when a football clubs owner knows little about football. you have to rely on others and flickers is simply not up to it or he wouldnt have been ousted at bury all those years ago.

 

[Vtid]

6 minutes ago, RayWalkers40yarder said:

this is absolutely SPOT ON. he shouldve gone after lincoln and thats a fact . unfortunately with flitcroft in place this is going to keep happening again and again. its what happens when a football clubs owner knows little about football. you have to rely on others and flickers is simply not up to it or he wouldnt have been ousted at bury all those years ago.

 

Cheltenham game was the final straw for me 

[JohnDoe]

Ive said something similar on the game thread. Crosby has a plan a and thats it. No ability to change. And the subs always mark the end of any attempt to compete. Bringing loft on first at half time with other options speaks volumes. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by JohnDoe

[Gigglypin]

Getting we are all disappointed, results and performances haven’t been great over the last couple of months and last night was a missed opportunity but where do we think we are?

I would hazard a guess that somewhere between 12th and 15th in the league, a decent (somewhat fortunate) cup run and bedding in of youth team players is meeting this years brief.

i know we strive for better but the style of football which the club is now trying to play is a complete and utter culture change to what we have been used to since probably the ldv winning side which is nearly 25 years ago. Since then for the most part we have played quite direct and kicked anything that moved.

Whilst at times this is exactly what we have needed at some stage we needed to move away from it in my opinion.

I actually think we are a centre half and a focal point centre forward short of being a pretty good 3rd division side.

i also look at Stoke taking another risk with Schumacher and think that the options for managers at this moment is pretty poor and in terms of sacking ours I can’t really see any candidate who would take a club forward.

[Brian Johnson]

10 minutes ago, Gigglypin said:

 

I actually think we are a centre half and a focal point centre forward short of being a pretty good 3rd division side.

i also look at Stoke taking another risk with Schumacher and think that the options for managers at this moment is pretty poor and in terms of sacking ours I can’t really see any candidate who would take a club forward.

How many defenders and centre forwards do you want in our squad?

Their are plenty of options out there that would want to manage Vale.

[Gigglypin]

That is a fair point in terms of numbers of forwards and defenders but I would question whether the ones we have are good enough.

in terms of managers it’s easy to say there are plenty of options, there were about 9000 last night but in terms of real options I don’t see many. The only one I can think of is ainsworth and i know there is always a big clamour for Gareth but I’m not sure whether his style of football would work at the vale let alone whether he would want to move back up north.
 

[Brian Johnson]

6 minutes ago, Gigglypin said:

That is a fair point in terms of numbers of forwards and defenders but I would question whether the ones we have are good enough.

in terms of managers it’s easy to say there are plenty of options, there were about 9000 last night but in terms of real options I don’t see many. The only one I can think of is ainsworth and i know there is always a big clamour for Gareth but I’m not sure whether his style of football would work at the vale let alone whether he would want to move back up north.
 

And you trust Flickers & Crosby to get it right on the defender & striker front this time if their is to be a this time in January.

In regards to managers, Michael Duff is out of work.

Managers in work we could look at Pete Wild, Lee Bell, the Barnet manager is getting high praise plus I'm sure their are others we could look at.

Or we can have a look at a team like Ipswich who thought a little bit of the box when appointing their manager because their will be coaches etc in the Premier League that would jump at the chance of managing Vale