Labour leadership

[geosname]

9 minutes ago, AMF said:

Thatcher haters and those who wouldn't forgive for closing the mines are either dead or disabled enough to be unable to go out and vote.

Retrospectively those who haven't been literally worked to death have realised that they wouldn't want their children and grandchildren crippled in years to come by having little choice but to work in mineshafts 4ft6 in height for their entire adult lives. Thatcher closing the mines was the best thing she ever did. Disgusting places to work. 

I doubt Thatcher closed the pits because of the working conditions.

[Jacko51]

13 minutes ago, AMF said:

Thatcher haters and those who wouldn't forgive for closing the mines are either dead or disabled enough to be unable to go out and vote.

Retrospectively those who haven't been literally worked to death have realised that they wouldn't want their children and grandchildren crippled in years to come by having little choice but to work in mineshafts 4ft6 in height for their entire adult lives. Thatcher closing the mines was the best thing she ever did. Disgusting places to work. 

Thatcher's problem was not that she closed the mines but that she totally ignored the consequences of doing so.

[AMF]

2 hours ago, TheSage said:

You can only satisfactorily define poverty viz-a-viz everyone else in the country.

If we start going down the route of "I was much poorer 50 years ago" it is largely meaningless because every generation is by and large better off than the last. My parents would say that the thirties were far worse than the fifties when, don't forget, we'd never had is so good and there was a consumer boom. Similarly, folk in the thirties had more than those living in mid Victorian England, so we go round in circles if we follow the logic of that argument. I sympathise with it and many families did indeed struggle terribly (mine included) but poverty is best defined in the context of society in 2019.

And on that basis the government's own commission, the UN, the IFS, the OECD,The Rowntree Foundation, CRB, and numerous charities tell us that there are a great many people who are struggling to cope. And what we take for granted (a warm home, food on the table, paying bills, buying new clothes, bringing up a family, etc.) are beyond millions of people. Life expectancy has reduced in some parts of England. Child poverty and personal debt are at record levels. So too homelessness, beggars, and the use of food banks.

I think it's a tragedy and a national embarrassment that should make us all feel ashamed, when at the same time inequality is at its height and the wealthiest in society have hugely increased their wealth since 2010. But I guess that's why I favour social democracy rather than voting for the very same government that has created or worsened all these social problems in the first place.

Have you actually asked yourself how these reported levels of poverty can be possible when the Labour Party vote is so low? Millions of people voted for the Conservatives in these elections who are within these organisations definition of poverty. Tell them they're in poverty and they'll treat it as an insult.

Look at the stats for Blyth Vale. Labour assume that everyone is in poverty in these areas and "NEED" Labour, but in reality unemployment is low, average wages are only just under the national average and house prices are low resulting in more disposable income. They've just had a new hospital built (A HOSPITAL BUILT UNDER TORY AUSTERITY????). Millions of people are not anywhere near as poor as these charities and busy body commissions make out. They should concentrate on helping the desolate (poorest £2 million) rather than trying to shame the government or persuade the electorate that things are worse than they actually are.

[bobvale]

I can not stand that woman but I don't think even she would recognise the tory party today. Although I disagree with everything about her, she in a very strange way had more in common with Corbyn than Johnson and I believe she would have never done some f the dirty tricks that he and his party did in this election. I'm not dead or disabled (yet) either.

[bobvale]

AMF - because these people are fed up and tired of not getting there Brexit done. I do not think that is the only reason they did not vote for the labour but I think it is a major one. Also because they don't like Corbyn and have lost faith that any politics person will ever help them. I think if Brexit had been done we would have seen lots of people not voting rather than changing in to conservatives. That's just my point of view of course. I think it is terrible that when one person was offering to make a revolution and help the environment with green jobs and making the country cleaner with clean energy, andanother person won't even committ to being neutral for over 30 years, that people chose the second person. I think that our children and there children will never forgive us for this. Just my point of view again.

[Jacko51]

8 minutes ago, AMF said:

Have you actually asked yourself how these reported levels of poverty can be possible when the Labour Party vote is so low? Millions of people voted for the Conservatives in these elections who are within these organisations definition of poverty. Tell them they're in poverty and they'll treat it as an insult.

Look at the stats for Blyth Vale. Labour assume that everyone is in poverty in these areas and "NEED" Labour, but in reality unemployment is low, average wages are only just under the national average and house prices are low resulting in more disposable income. They've just had a new hospital built (A HOSPITAL BUILT UNDER TORY AUSTERITY????). Millions of people are not anywhere near as poor as these charities and busy body commissions make out. They should concentrate on helping the desolate (poorest £2 million) rather than trying to shame the government or persuade the electorate that things are worse than they actually are.

The new hospital in Blyth Valley?  Are you talking about the one in Cramlington where patients can't get parked?!

[AMF]

16 minutes ago, geosname said:

I doubt Thatcher closed the pits because of the working conditions.

An unexpected benefit.

[AMF]

1 minute ago, Jacko51 said:

The new hospital in Blyth Valley?  Are you talking about the one in Cramlington where patients can't get parked?!

Didn't bother them enough to not vote Conservative so maybe you should ask yourself where did you hear such information? From those with an agenda to get Labour in perhaps?

[Heatwave]

2 hours ago, For Us All said:

Boris has more money now to spend on all of those things after stocks surged by £33 billion on Friday following the Tory landslide and £55 billion yesterday.

Which neatly reversed just as soon as he announced that the trade deal had to be completed by the end of December 2020 or we go on WTO terms. For his sake I hope he sold his shares first.

[Regal Beagle]

15 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I find it ironic that people label Corbyn as scum so venomously and then vote for the party they were never going to forgive for closing the mines and selling everything off.

I also find the comment about people growing up and stopping voting for Labour amusing.  Does that mean that all those Thatcher haters have now matured into good conservatives and she was right all along, and it was just the petulance of youth that opposed her?

The alternative that you would have us believe is that those Thatcher haters have read the sun and completely changed their mind on the tories? 

[geosname]

1 minute ago, AMF said:

An unexpected benefit.

Be careful.... if your implying dirty jobs should be shut down so people can get exercise walking to the job centre it might become part of the green new deal.

[bobvale]

I have just seen that I now have a number 9 under my name. Thank you every body!! I will now reminis about my favourite Vale number 9!

[AMF]

15 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Thatcher's problem was not that she closed the mines but that she totally ignored the consequences of doing so.

Too many Labour councillors in Stoke-on-Trent spent decades wallowing in self pity rather than stimulating growth in Stoke on Trent. Too busy campaigning for obsolete industries to replace them locally.

[Jacko51]

Just now, AMF said:

Didn't bother them enough to not vote Conservative so maybe you should ask yourself where did you hear such information? From those with an agenda to get Labour in perhaps?

I heard it from my cousin who lives in Cramlington and uses the hospital.  No agenda mate, just information for you.

[AMF]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I heard it from my cousin who lives in Cramlington and uses the hospital.  No agenda mate, just information for you.

Did they vote Labour?