RIP Orlando victims

[Paul6754]

I think the other side of that argument would be the frequency of such shootings in the USA compared to what happened in Paris last November, or in Brussels (I can't remember how many people were shot there).

 

Does every mass shooting in America get labelled a terrorist incident or just the ones where the perpetrator isn't white?

 

Absolutely not and it's very wrong to look at mass shootings through the lens of color.

 

No doubt the frequency of mass shootings in the USA is down to the availability of guns and the lack of gun control. Obama has tried everything, even using his Executive Power to bypass Washington, to introduce more gun control but with Congress and the Senate controlled by NRA backed Republicans and the Court of Supreme Justice currently tied at 4 Republicans and 4 Democrats he has no chance, it's sheer lunacy in my view.

[Bea Smith]

Were you one of those whom supported refugees coming to the UK? How ironic.

 

Get your facts right, and don't use victims of this attack to make your (incorrect) political point. I suggest you either apologise or find posts of mine where I advocated more refugees coming to the UK.

 

I may be wrong but if you are who someone has told me you are, some (not me) might see you deported back to the fascist hole you came from as well, now THAT is ironic.

[Bea Smith]

Quote Originally Posted by whotobeakiller View Post

 

Were you one of those whom supported refugees coming to the UK? How ironic.

 

 

 

Get your facts right, and don't use victims of this attack to make your (incorrect) political point. I suggest you either apologise or find posts of mine where I advocated more refugees coming to the UK.

 

I may be wrong but if you are who someone has told me you are, some (not me) might see you deported back to the fascist hole you came from as well, now THAT is ironic

 

 

And although I am anti-capitalist your rmearks about capitalism are inana end disrespectful again too, it is religious extremism that did this, and lack of gun control as if the killer had not had easy access to weapons he wouldn't have been able to do it.

That isn't anti-Islam either, the Christian riught-wing Westboro Baptist Church and some of those freak Pentecostal fanatic nutters like the one that used to come on here are just as bad, if not worse as the Bible clearly says do not kill.

[Fosse69]

The guy who committed the atrocities worked for G4S and had authority through his job to use a gun. Capitalism has contributed to 50 deaths it seems

Was he also born in the USA?

[Bea Smith]

Was he also born in the USA?

 

Yes, so those bringing immigration into this thread are really out of order, as well as making themselves look even more like they are using the mass murder for their own ends like Trump did.

[Bea Smith]

Yet another atrocity committed by someone known to the authorities, it's high time the powers that be started to be seriously more proactive than reactive. How many innocent people have to die to cater to the politically correct.

 

How can you blame political correctness when it is clear this was a toxic mix of religious extremism and easy heavy weapon availability ?

[geosname]

There is nothing that can be said that makes this act acceptable.

There are no words that I know to express my sadness.

 

Perhaps the world is becoming immune to such atrocities?

When such things become acceptable/the norm what follows?

What will someone have to do to bring us shock and awe?

[Bea Smith]

I understand the allure of America to many people, and each person must choose what they like in culture, countries and values and so on.

I find it so hard to feel nothing but contempt for the US though because it glories violence, revenge, greed and triumphalism above all other values. Yet most individual americans I have met have been very nice people - superficially.

 

The problem comes if you can go past the polite small talk and ask really relevant and searching questions, like 'You said you are proud to be American, but why?' and find it is really no more than that they were born there. Which is a random accident.

 

It is not just that they cherish their guns either, violence and killing are seen as healthy in TV, partuclarly in films (Rambo, Die Hard, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Kill Bill and hundreds of others), the horror films -particularly zombie ones are a cheapo metaphor for massacring 'anything different'.

 

They love hunting and killing innocent animals, their children swap murder filled computer games - is it any wonder we get these massacres?

 

Much of the above is true in other countries too, some here, but not quite on the same scale.

 

There is some hope for America as such horrendous extremism and violence-worship produces a backlash of sorts, though it was crushed in the late 1960's and 1970's and would be again.

 

Young people are turning to Bernie Sanders and his more compassionate politics, but will need to be stronger than ever to withstand the attacks that will come on them as they try to civilise their country. I wish them good luck, and hope they can prevail against such true evil.

[Twitters]

I respect your point Bea and I agree with a lot of what you say, but liking violent video games and movies doesn't always mean you are going to go violent yourself. I love the Die Hard movies and I found playing the Medal of Honour war based games as a great form of escapism during my time at Uni. But I abhor gun violence and think those who refuse to change gun laws are allowing these massacres to take place.

 

I accept some can be affected by these games/movies and want to act out what they see in them. But I don't believe playing or watching them automatically means you will want to act them out in real life yourself. But I do see where you're coming from.

[Bea Smith]

I respect your point Bea and I agree with a lot of what you say, but liking violent video games and movies doesn't always mean you are going to go violent yourself. I love the Die Hard movies and I found playing the Medal of Honour war based games as a great form of escapism during my time at Uni. But I abhor gun violence and think those who refuse to change gun laws are allowing these massacres to take place.

 

I accept some can be affected by these games/movies and want to act out what they see in them. But I don't believe playing or watching them automatically means you will want to act them out in real life yourself. But I do see where you're coming from.

 

 

 

In the case of the vast majority of adults I agree there is little harm with these games, not that I like them, but adults can choose.

The problem comes with the effect they have on 7-15 year olds (or perhaps even a wider age range) - it was admitted that the two little cherubs who murdered Jamie Bulger in Bootle many years ago were HEAVILY influenced by a video nasty, and there have been a fair number of other cases.

I've heard 10-year-old kids discussing these games and loving the gore, and the worse the death the more they like it, fortunately most of them grow up.

It is just one element in my argument - the films I mentioned are appalling and worse than Nazi propaganda - especially the Rambo ones and these do influence people. Absolutely no artistic redeeming value either, unlike perhaps Clockwork Orange which is very nasty in places but thought provoking and not just a wan k-fest of mindless violence.

Worse than all this though, in my humble opinion, is the misuse of God and Jesus' name by so-called far right Christians who are just as bad as the worst of the Islamic fundamentalists. I despair when I read of Christians who are pro-gun laws.

Anything that can be done to promote peace and non-violence is helpful. One of our superannuated veteran posters who is still secretly an overage hippy (just kidding D) recently introduced me to this group, before my time, but very interesting and enlightening and worth a watch by anyone with any spiritual interest, whether Christian, Islamic, Hindu or whatever.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z062TDH5lhg

 

THis is all digressing a bit from the events, but I feel it relevant to the situation. One poster said 'we will see the same in 2 years time, nothing changes' - sadly I think we will see far worse in a much shorter time. I am not optimistic, I feel either Trump or Clinton will bring us much sorrow and conflict.

[geosname]

Im not sure I buy into the video games/films theory, I dont doubt it as a contributory factor as probably does the news reporting of the events and many other things... nature or nurture?

Long before video games and films there were many serial killers and mass murderers... Im not suggesting they had the same motives or modus operandi just the same will to kill.

Herman Webster Mudgett didnt need modern techniques to kill a large number of people [although not at the same time]

I would guess the notoriety of the acts also plays a part.