Confirmation (if needed) that the FA are a joke

[Paul6754]

No need for me to use wiki or anything.

 

I called it borderline simply cos I could not be sure why you made the claim that you made..I'd need to know why you made the claim before I feel I could decide one way or the other. You were imo opinion straying towards racism hence it was for me borderline as to whether you were being racist or not.

 

Well spit it out so we can have a baseline for discussion so you can't wriggle out or claim you said something else, you can't sit on the fence all the time JA, especially after making a comment like that.

[old sage]

That fact that Carroll did not hit the player is hardly surprising. He has had trouble hitting the target for a while now.

Why are you so bitter Jean. Has the Toon mist descended.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Well spit it out so we can have a baseline for discussion so you can't wriggle out or claim you said something else, you can't sit on the fence all the time JA, especially after making a comment like that.

 

To claim that I sit on the fence is ludicrous.

 

I can't spit out what I don't know..you need to tell me why you posted what you posted and then I can respond. I always stand by what I post and never try to wriggle out of what I post

 

Were you suggesting that in some way he behaved the way he did (feigning injury/dishing it out but not being able to take it) because of his ethnicity/nationality? Yes or no?

 

In the aid of clarity here is what you posted:

 

Flores is the typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", likes to dish it out but can't take it

[For Us All]

So Bellamy gets a ban and Yaya Toure doesn't?

How does that work?

[NellyTheValiant]

When did that directive come into play?

 

I don't believe that it has but if the cheats are never punished then they continue to do so.

[For Us All]

So Bellamy gets a ban and Yaya Toure doesn't?

How does that work?

 

More information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26115540

[Paul6754]

I can't spit out what I don't know..you need to tell me why you posted what you posted and then I can respond.

 

You are correct, you obviously don't know what the definition of racism is and what the definition of borderline racism is heaven only knows.

 

I always stand by what I post and never try to wriggle out of what I post

 

Now that's debatable.

 

Were you suggesting that in some way he behaved the way he did (feigning injury/dishing it out but not being able to take it) because of his ethnicity/nationality? Yes or no?

 

No. Flores behaved in a manner typical of some Latino/Spanish footballers, they like to dish it out but not take it. Examples are many of the Estudiantes team that played Man U in the World club Championship in 1969(?), Diego Simeone and the Beckham incident in the 1998 WC to Flores. Daniel Passarella is an example of a Latino footballer who would never be seen writhing on the floor feigning injury.

[Houston Valiant]

The real question is, does Andy Carroll deserve a thread about him? I think not.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You are correct, you obviously don't know what the definition of racism is and what the definition of borderline racism is heaven only knows.

 

What I didn't know is why you posted what you posted..I was quite clear about that

 

I am well aware of the definition and I told you what I meant by borderline racism; I was very clear. I suggest that you read my post again

 

Let's give a definition of racism (one of many I admit but the first one I found)

 

"A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement or behaviour"

 

I think posting that latino/spanish fopotballers are more prone to feigning injury and the like becasue they are latino/Spanish would be racist

 

Now that's debatable.

 

It is not..ask anyone on here whom I have engaged in debate with.

 

 

No. Flores behaved in a manner typical of some Latino/Spanish footballers, they like to dish it out but not take it.

 

You have changed your tune, indeed changed what you actually posted..you now say 'some Latino/Spanish footballers' which is very different to what you posted previously. He also behaved in a manner typical of some English footballers, some German footballers, some Belgian footballers, some African footballers. Basically he behaved in a manner typical of some footballers.

 

I repeat your previous post below (which you have omitted)

 

Flores is the typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", likes to dish it out but can't take it

 

And I am supposedly the one who does not stand by what I post? I certainly don't attempt to change what I posted

 

 

Examples are many of the Estudiantes team that played Man U in the World club Championship in 1969(?), Diego Simeone and the Beckham incident in the 1998 WC to Flores. Daniel Passarella is an example of a Latino footballer who would never be seen writhing on the floor feigning injury.

 

Blah blah...Ashley Young, Jurgen Klinsmann, Arjen Robben, Drogba all proficient divers and feigners of injury..being Latino/Spanish has nothing to do with it..which was my entire point

 

I never suggested that you claimed that all Latino/Spanish footballers 'writhe around on the floor', you seem to be suggesting that being Latino/Spanish made them more prone to doing so.

 

I don't think you are racist but seem to be of the opinion for some reason that lation/Spanish footballers are more likely to feign injury than those of other ethnicities/nationalities..which for me just has no basis in reality.

 

There is no such thing as the typical Latino/Spanish tough guy who likes to dish it out but can't take it no more than there is the typical English player who can dish it our and take it and so on

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I looked up borderline racism....every reference I found referred to the use of stereotypes to back one's views on a race/nation..which actually seems to fit quite well.

[Paul6754]

Let's give a definition of racism (one of many I admit but the first one I found)

 

"A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement or behaviour"

 

There are inherent differences among, between and within the various human races that determine cultural or individual achievement or behaviour, those differences are explained by the science of genetics and peri-genetics and environmental considerations. Your definition is so broad that an ignoramus could level an accusation of racism at anyone or any statement.

 

I think posting that latino/spanish fopotballers are more prone to feigning injury and the like becasue they are latino/Spanish would be racist

 

This is what I posted "Flores is the typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", likes to dish it out but can't take it". There is no mention, suggestion, insinuation or otherwise whatsoever of ALL or ONLY or RESTRICTED TO etc, no attempt to change a post. I believe that such a view does exist within football, its not racist just an observation of behaviour over the years. Yes players from all countries feign injury but I chose to restrict examples to Latino/Spanish as the discussion was about Flores.

 

You have changed your tune, indeed changed what you actually posted..you now say 'some Latino/Spanish footballers' which is very different to what you posted previously.

 

I haven't changed any tune, read what I've posted above. I'll give you some tips on critical reading skills. When reading critically, read what is written but also think about what's not written to get a full picture/understanding of the meaning of a phrase/sentence. If you've read any patent documents you'll know what I mean.

 

I don't think you are racist

 

You obviously have no clear understanding of the definition of the term so your opinion is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

 

There is no such thing as the typical Latino/Spanish tough guy who likes to dish it out but can't take it no more than there is the typical English player who can dish it our and take it and so on

 

I think there is and its origin is from the Spanish/Latino culture "Machismo, and before you revert to the racism word again please take some time to critically read a few articles on the subject, particularly its origin..

[JOHNNYAITCH]

There are inherent differences among, between and within the various human races that determine cultural or individual achievement or behaviour, those differences are explained by the science of genetics and peri-genetics and environmental considerations. Your definition is so broad that an ignoramus could level an accusation of racism at anyone or any statement.

 

Not my definition

 

There are no inherent differences regarding behaviour..they arise from nurture not nature so they are not inherent.

 

This is what I posted "Flores is the typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", likes to dish it out but can't take it". There is no mention, suggestion, insinuation or otherwise whatsoever of ALL or ONLY or RESTRICTED TO etc, no attempt to change a post.

 

You changed your claim form what you originally posted to inlcude the word "some"..it's there in black and white

 

That's why I claimed borderline racism..I did not know why you posted what you posted...as I have explained previously Now I do. I still think you referred to a stereotype though

 

I believe that such a view does exist within football, its not racist just an observation of behaviour over the years. Yes players from all countries feign injury but I chose to restrict examples to Latino/Spanish as the discussion was about Flores.

 

I don't care about a view 'within football' I make my own mind up

 

There is still no such thing as a typical Latino/Spanish footballer when it comes to thweir behaviour/character. Flores' ethnicity/nationality is irrelevant....he's an individual.

 

 

I haven't changed any tune, read what I've posted above.

 

You changed the one thing that matters more than anything else in a forum..the words that you used

 

I'll give you some tips on critical reading skills. When reading critically, read what is written but also think about what's not written to get a full picture/understanding of the meaning of a phrase/sentence. If you've read any patent documents you'll know what I mean.

 

As a former student of English literature what you suggest is inherant in the study of literature and is, therefore, second nature to me. If you'd studied the works of Shakespeare, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, Dickens and so on you'd know what I mean.

 

I did exactly that..which is why I referred to borderline racism, and did not pass judgement immediately. I did exactly what you advocate.

 

 

You obviously have no clear understanding of the definition of the term so your opinion is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

 

Hmm..given that I did not use my own definition that makes no sense

 

Given all the posts you've made on my opinions the above makes no sense

 

I think there is and its origin is from the Spanish/Latino culture "Machismo, and before you revert to the racism word again please take some time to critically read a few articles on the subject, particularly its origin..

 

I have read about that too...

 

Machismo noun

1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.

2. a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate: The military campaign was an exercise in national machismo.

Why would this cause a footballer to writhe around on the ground feigning injury? Surely it would make them do the opposite and pretend that they were not hurt when they are? That they really can take it?

 

There is still no such thing as a typical Latino/Spanish footballer..unless one believes the stereotypes.

[Paul6754]

Not my definition

 

So why quote it then, you accept it's a poor definition, yes/no.

 

There are no inherent differences regarding behaviour..they arise from nurture not nature so they are not inherent.

 

You need to explain that one, nurture and nature (genetics, genes are inherited) control behaviour. If not how do you explain that behaviour can be modified/controlled by drugs. Drugs modify the chemistry of behaviour, genes generate the chemicals that result in behaviour.

 

You changed your claim form what you originally posted to inlcude the word "some"..it's there in black and white

 

No I didn't, I explained that clearly above.

 

I don't care about a view 'within football' I make my own mind up

 

Of course you should but that view has been around in football circles for donkey's years, perhaps it's gone out of favour these days.

 

There is still no such thing as a typical Latino/Spanish footballer when it comes to thweir behaviour/character. Flores' ethnicity/nationality is irrelevant....he's an individual.

 

I'll stick with what I wrote which is different from the above.

 

As a former student of English literature what you suggest is inherant in the study of literature and is, therefore, second nature to me. If you'd studied the works of Shakespeare, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, Dickens and so on you'd know what I mean.

 

So you should accept that nowhere did I say or intimate all, only or restricted to. I used the word typical and the phrase Spanish/Latino "tough guy", not all Latino/Spanish footballers are "tough guys" and not all are typical (Passarella IMO).

 

Hmm..given that I did not use my own definition that makes no sense. Given all the posts you've made on my opinions the above makes no sense

 

So why list the definition you did?. Only when I knew the definition/standard/baseline you were working from can I give an opinion on your accusation.

 

I have read about that too...

 

Machismo noun

1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.

2. a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate: The military campaign was an exercise in national machismo.

Why would this cause a footballer to writhe around on the ground feigning injury? Surely it would make them do the opposite and pretend that they were not hurt when they are? That they really can take it?

 

There is still no such thing as a typical Latino/Spanish footballer..unless one believes the stereotypes.

 

Rather than just a definition which gives no indications of origin take a quick read of the wiki article, I know it's only wiki but it's informative.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

 

I didn't say "Typical Latino/Spanish footballer", I said typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", "tough guy" being a subset.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So why quote it then, you accept it's a poor definition, yes/no.

 

No

 

You need to explain that one, nurture and nature (genetics, genes are inherited) control behaviour. If not how do you explain that behaviour can be modified/controlled by drugs. Drugs modify the chemistry of behaviour, genes generate the chemicals that result in behaviour.

 

Drugs are part of the nurturing

 

 

 

No I didn't, I explained that clearly above.

 

You did, it's there in black and white or balck and blue..you changed the words

 

 

 

Of course you should but that view has been around in football circles for donkey's years, perhaps it's gone out of favour these days.

 

Or perhaps it's a load of rubbish?

 

 

 

I'll stick with what I wrote which is different from the above.

 

Quote what you posted..that's what I have done

 

 

 

So you should accept that nowhere did I say or intimate all, only or restricted to. I used the word typical and the phrase Spanish/Latino "tough guy", not all Latino/Spanish footballers are "tough guys" and not all are typical (Passarella IMO).

 

Typical does not mean all I've never claimed that, you used the term typical when there is no such thing..it's a stereotype

 

 

 

 

Easy..if i'd used my own you could have claimed that I was just making one up to suit my point. You didn't hesitate to give an opinion before I gave the definition..you dismissed it without having the definition

 

 

 

Rather than just a definition which gives no indications of origin take a quick read of the wiki article, I know it's only wiki but it's

 

have done so and several others

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

 

In what way does writhing on the ground feigning injury meet the above? It's the opposite surely? Machismo would mean that one acts as though unhurt when hurt not hurt when not hurt?

 

 

I didn't say "Typical Latino/Spanish footballer", I said typical Latino/Spanish "tough guy", "tough guy" being a subset.

 

Now exactly what you posted suddenly matters, the exact words are now critical? But Ok you are right you didn't post that. There is no such thing as a typical latino/Spanish "tough guy". Flores on this occasion was a cheating diver but it's nothing to do with him being Latino/Spanish.

 

If it's about Machismo why would he not pretend to be unhurt when he is?

[Paul6754]

No

 

But you did quote it as a definition, it is a poor and ill thought out definition and led you to make a woeful accusation.

 

Drugs are part of the nurturing

 

Oh really, I'd like to see an explanation for that one, you clearly don't know what you'e talking about here.

 

Easy..if i'd used my own you could have claimed that I was just making one up to suit my point. You didn't hesitate to give an opinion before I gave the definition..you dismissed it without having the definition

 

If you're going to write nonsense on a message board at least have the courage to stand behind it or accept its nonsense, your own definition couldn't have been any worse than the one you wrote.

 

In what way does writhing on the ground feigning injury meet the above? It's the opposite surely? Machismo would mean that one acts as though unhurt when hurt not hurt when not hurt?

 

Never said it did, just used "Machissmo" as a possible origin of the Latino/Spanish "tough guy" in football, note the ".....", do you got it yet.

 

If it's about Machismo why would he not pretend to be unhurt when he is?

 

Are you saying Flores was hurt in that incident with AC. How come he was clutching his face/nose area when writhing on the ground when it was the top fleshy part of AC's arm that brushed the very top of his forehead.

 

Where I grew up in Kidsgrove there was a saying "If yer conna tack it then dunna give it", I wish the likes of Flores and Diego Simeone would head that phrase.