14 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

We have had complete culls in the past and they never work. I’ve never seen a successful one. The worst of all being the post Page, Bruno era Smurfwaite one.

 The most successful rebuilds of all were the gradual moving on of poor performers and the keeping of the best or most consistent players. 
 

I think we need to be keeping all the good pros if we can and adding quality to that. 

Well said.

48 minutes ago, Guppys left peg said:

On the flip side the one under Clarke and Flitcroft when all the out of contract players were let go we then went and got promoted. Just on our out of contract I can see the argument for keeping a couple of them but that is it.

Exactly. I think just because "complete culls" didn't work on previous occasions doesn't mean it shouldn't work now. The circumstances each summer are different after all. The "cull" under Smurthwaite was wrong, I feel this one would be right.

• In 2016 - Smurthwaite got rid of quality performers such as Michael O'Connor, Anthony Grant, Carl Dickinson etc who had finished 12th in League One and arguably just needed a couple more quality additions to do better
• In 2026, we have a side well adrift at the bottom, with 36 players (clearly too many) used during the season and both an obvious lack of quality and clearly overloaded in some positions

It's a totally different scenario.

Just to follow up on that... there is no "correct" approach to the "cull" question. Take two promotions:

• In 2012, Micky Adams had to build almost a completely new squad from scratch and we won promotion.
• In 2024, Darren Moore released just three players in the summer and won promotion.

So, I don't think it works to say "culls don't work" or indeed "culls do work" I think it entirely depends on the circumstances and I would argue that following such a poor season, a new manager in place who wants to shape his own side and a large number of players out of contract, a cull makes more sense to me than not this summer. 

Ultimately, only hindsight will tell if my view is right or wrong.

6 minutes ago, robf said:

Just to follow up on that... there is no "correct" approach to the "cull" question. Take two promotions:

• In 2012, Micky Adams had to build almost a completely new squad from scratch and we won promotion.
• In 2024, Darren Moore released just three players in the summer and won promotion.

So, I don't think it works to say "culls don't work" or indeed "culls do work" I think it entirely depends on the circumstances and I would argue that following such a poor season, a new manager in place who wants to shape his own side and a large number of players out of contract, a cull makes more sense to me than not this summer. 

Ultimately, only hindsight will tell if my view is right or wrong.

Yep it’s ultimately what you follow it up with is what counts. Now a reasonable question is should Darnborough be trusted with that and that is less than certain but if Brady wants a team to play a certain way he has to be able to have players more suited to his image.

Guess with the Moore promotion it’s also worth noting he had a more than sizeable amount of money to spend in terms of additions to the squad as well as keeping on the majority of the previous years. If he’d only brought in a handful and ran it back with the same group I’m certain we’d have been around lower mid-table.

11 minutes ago, Guppys left peg said:

Yep it’s ultimately what you follow it up with is what counts. Now a reasonable question is should Darnborough be trusted with that and that is less than certain but if Brady wants a team to play a certain way he has to be able to have players more suited to his image.

Guess with the Moore promotion it’s also worth noting he had a more than sizeable amount of money to spend in terms of additions to the squad as well as keeping on the majority of the previous years. If he’d only brought in a handful and ran it back with the same group I’m certain we’d have been around lower mid-table.

I would completely agree @Guppys left peg

I just thought making it cull = wrong is too simplistic. As you say, Moore didn't cull but he was substantially backed to bring in new players. Smurthwaite culled when it was better not to. Adams made do with what he could and found a winning formula. All were different scenarios. 

John, Humphries, G Hall, Gordon, Byers, Walters. 
Id sign Gauci if available
that would be it for me 

13 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

John, Humphries, G Hall, Gordon, Byers, Walters. 
Id sign Gauci if available
that would be it for me 

Call me a pedant, if you wish, but I make that only 7 - so we'd need at least 4 more (and more likely at least another 15 😶)

I'll get me coat...

I just worry / wonder: 

- What budget will be there

- Who is doing the recruiting

 

At the moment, I don't have faith in Darnbrough or Brady in identifying the right players, the indications (early for Brady) don't reassure right now. 

I won't be surprised if some are retained that I might have second thoughts about, but I need to remember I am not watching them in training, so Brady may see a bit more in them that turns out good. 

Hope that's all it ends up being though - a worry, and it turns out to be nothing to worry about. 

Fingers crossed.

2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

John, Humphries, G Hall, Gordon, Byers, Walters. 
Id sign Gauci if available
that would be it for me 

Why would you keep byres he gets a knock and spends most of  season on the treatment table what we need is match time for players to get match fit they stopped the resevere games because it was expencive so injured player cannot get match fit come back in to  first  team get a knock or pull a muscle out for weeks again. 

4 hours ago, Alan Vit said:

Well said.

I dont think it is Alan,we need a complete cull of players and allow a new manager(Brady) to bring in players who he wants.

Its obvious we as a club made a MASSIVE mistake in keeping hold of Moore for way to long,so lets not do the same with the players

Only my opinion of course

1 hour ago, NW9Valiant said:

I just worry / wonder: 

- What budget will be there

- Who is doing the recruiting

 

At the moment, I don't have faith in Darnbrough or Brady in identifying the right players, the indications (early for Brady) don't reassure right now. 

I won't be surprised if some are retained that I might have second thoughts about, but I need to remember I am not watching them in training, so Brady may see a bit more in them that turns out good. 

Hope that's all it ends up being though - a worry, and it turns out to be nothing to worry about. 

Fingers crossed.

I have no inside knowledge but i would be amazed after such a disaster of a season if the budget wasn't a good one including money to a fee or two

I think there have been occasions where a cull was needed, but I don't know if we're in that place now.

Jonny will know what he wants to do anyway.

On on.

1 minute ago, Rory said:

I think there have been occasions where a cull was needed, but I don't know if we're in that place now.

Jonny will know what he wants to do anyway.

On on.

Maybe "cull" is the wrong work (it sounds extreme) but I think there certainly needs to be major changes. 

I would hope (for a start) we don't begin next season with three senior keepers, seven left wingback options, a summer signing immediately loaned out and only three recognised centre-halves.

It has to be a better balanced squad and I would hope one where there's a strong core of players who are first-choice (not the constant rotation which doesn't allow anybody to keep match sharp or develop partnerships).

If you're going to do that (have a core of regular players) then if not a "cull" there needs to be a drastic slimming down of squad numbers from the thirty we have now (35 if you include loanees) to something much more manageable. 

Maybe the new pitch will reduce the need to rotate so much.

5 hours ago, TJHValiant said:

We have had complete culls in the past and they never work. I’ve never seen a successful one. The worst of all being the post Page, Bruno era Smurfwaite one.

 The most successful rebuilds of all were the gradual moving on of poor performers and the keeping of the best or most consistent players. 
 

I think we need to be keeping all the good pros if we can and adding quality to that. 

 

4 hours ago, Alan Vit said:

Well said.

 

18 minutes ago, werstayinup said:

I dont think it is Alan,we need a complete cull of players and allow a new manager(Brady) to bring in players who he wants.

Its obvious we as a club made a MASSIVE mistake in keeping hold of Moore for way to long, so lets not do the same with the players

Only my opinion of course

There are two salient points to consider for your and other people's proposed "cull" -

1. What is the proportion of success in new signings?
2. To what total amount and how is the "cull" going to be funded?
    

For 1., there are different benchmarks for this, but the best I can find is proposed by the Association of Sporting Directors and stipulates that on average just 44% of transfers in to a club may be deemed successful.

To avoid hair-splitting let's round that up to 50%.

So for every new signing who becomes a success, there will be another who turns out to be a failure.

This is why I object to posters who, for instance, insist in unthinkingly cavalier fashion that a player like Funso Ojo should be dismissed, when this season we know first hand that he has EFL1 quality, works well with the Vale management and can really add to the team's performance.

It is unthinking approaches such as that which make me agree strongly with the views above of TJHValiant.


For 2., we currently have 14 players who are contracted for a season or more beyond this 2025-26 season (OVF article linked below).

That means either persisting with those contracted players as part of the squad or selling them / loaning them out / paying up their contracts.

If we keep them, that leaves limited room for squad augmentation.

If we pay up their contracts, that is a double financial hit to pay off the existing player and to pay for the incoming player.


The conclusion to draw from this is that any proposed mass "cull" is difficult, expensive and may not even be possible in the real world.
 

Port Vale squad explainer – which players are under contract and for how long? - onevalefan.co.uk

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