January Transfers and Rumours

[ValeForever.]

I've also heard Walters will be going to Stoke. Pretty sure Leon Constantine is his agent.

I think we did everything we could to tempt him to sign with us. Including throwing him in & giving him first team starts, which is probably the only thing we could offer him which Stoke cannot. Giving him game time would've been the last card we could play & it doesn't look like it's persuaded him or his agent.

The fact he's been left out by Crosby the past few games would suggest it's a done deal & we are cutting ties. It's a foolish move IMO, but he's probably been promised the world by Stoke & he doesn't have to move home.

I'd like to think we leaned on the Will Forrester situation to show him that there's clear evidence of talented youngsters leaving that club due to a lack of game time & opportunities.

Only time will tell whether he's made the right call, but he obviously sees it as the next step in his development. Still a very young lad & will no doubt go straight into their under 23 setup. They have quite a bit of pull with their under 23s based on the quality of opposition they are playing. They regularly play all the top dogs including the top European clubs, PSG etc. We simply cannot compete with that unfortunately. 

Edited January 4 by ValeForever.

[Brian Johnson]

50 minutes ago, JRC said:

 Stoke is a graveyard for young players - if he goes he's a silly boy. 

I disagree

Just over the past couple of seasons they have developed 

Harry Souttar - sold for £15 million plus add ons

Nathan Collins - Sold for £10 million plus

Tyrese Campbell

Junior Tchamadeu - Just turned 20 years old and is playing for the first team

Sol Sidibe - 16 years old and made 6 appearances so far this season for them

[Wrex]

2 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Just pulled up some stats on Chislett - again, data has to be taken with a grain of salt at this level.

He is the most productive player at this level for dribbles per 90 minutes, and (brace yourself) 'expected assists' per 90 (this is just the quality of the chances he creates, without taking into account how useless our donkeys up front are at putting them away). The blue is Chislett, the rest are all the other players categorised as 'attacking midfielders'.

To put it simply, he's one of the most creative players in League 1.

He's miles ahead of anyone. Combine this with an improving work effort and 7 G+A in his last 5, at the age of 25 so still room for improvement, and I think there could be a few data-savvy clubs showing interest.

Yeah the podcast guys were surprised how the stats sites said he was our best player

[JoeB2]

I didn't see him at Wrexham, but I've been pretty unimpressed by Walters in his appearances. Subbed at half-time in his two league starts. Shorrock and Lomax have done more in their fewer opportunities. There's a decent player there but not worth mithering about if Constantine is being daft with demands.

Edited January 4 by JoeB2

[robf]

Playing Devil's advocate here a bit I don't know whether there's an element of "let's play down a player who may end up at our rivals" with Walters right now.

Are Shorrock and Lomax better than Walters? They're all young and inexperienced and that brings inconsistency with it. Each one has had one or two excellent games and then been hauled off early in others. So they've all had both good and bad spells in the first-team. Who knows which of them will have the better/longer professional career - it's too early to tell.

However, I think Walters, for a teenager, has been pretty impressive in what I feel is potentially a harder position for a youngster to come into. There's arguably more physicality in central midfield than on the flanks. He's also given glimpses that he's got good awareness and can see a pass. 

I think he looks a decent bet for the future and I would be disappointed if he did go as I think, on a personal level, he'd have a better chance of a run of first-team football at Vale than at Stoke. However, I do take the point that we can't let contract talks drag on forever... 

 

[Brian Johnson]

2 minutes ago, robf said:

Playing Devil's advocate here a bit I don't know whether there's an element of "let's play down a player who may end up at our rivals" with Walters right now.

Are Shorrock and Lomax better than Walters? They're all young and inexperienced and that brings inconsistency with it. Each one has had one or two excellent games and then been hauled off early in others. So they've all had both good and bad spells in the first-team. Who knows which of them will have the better/longer professional career - it's too early to tell.

However, I think Walters, for a teenager, has been pretty impressive in what I feel is potentially a harder position for a youngster to come into. There's arguably more physicality in central midfield than on the flanks. He's also given glimpses that he's got good awareness and can see a pass. 

I think he looks a decent bet for the future and I would be disappointed if he did go as I think, on a personal level, he'd have a better chance of a run of first-team football at Vale than at Stoke. However, I do take the point that we can't let contract talks drag on forever... 

 

Stoke can easily afford to give him £2k - £3k per week plus a signing on fee 

Where we will be at around £500 - £750 per week.

 

[JoeB2]

Watching a bit of Aldershot and I would quite happily ask them how much they want for Tolaj and Stokes. We couldn't afford it, like.

Edited January 4 by JoeB2

[Rampant Zebra]

1 hour ago, Brian Johnson said:

I disagree

Just over the past couple of seasons they have developed 

Harry Souttar - sold for £15 million plus add ons

Nathan Collins - Sold for £10 million plus

Tyrese Campbell

Junior Tchamadeu - Just turned 20 years old and is playing for the first team

Sol Sidibe - 16 years old and made 6 appearances so far this season for them

But what about the other 25 or so players in the same age group?

[Brian Johnson]

2 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

But what about the other 25 or so players in the same age group?

What are you going on about now?

[Rampant Zebra]

2 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

What are you going on about now?

You replied to the comment that st*ke was a graveyard for young players by naming 5 that had been reasonably successful. I was just asking about the other members of the same age groups, how many of them are now out of football altogether or playing in non league? 

[robf]

Slightly off topic - Peterborough could net £30m due to a 30% sell-on clause if Ivan Toney moves for the £100m touted. Wow!

It just shows the value of inserting a sell-on clause when you sell a player with potential.

 

[Brian Johnson]

12 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

You replied to the comment that st*ke was a graveyard for young players by naming 5 that had been reasonably successful. I was just asking about the other members of the same age groups, how many of them are now out of football altogether or playing in non league? 

No idea, Why don't you go and find out for yourself and report back here

[Brian Johnson]

4 minutes ago, robf said:

Slightly off topic - Peterborough could net £30m due to a 30% sell-on clause if Ivan Toney moves for the £100m touted. Wow!

It just shows the value of inserting a sell-on clause when you sell a player with potential.

 

Since that came out, Darragh MacAnthony been all over social media trying to play it down because he knows that when Peterborough United go in for a player, the opposite club are going to vastly inflate their asking price

[ValeForever.]

11 minutes ago, robf said:

Slightly off topic - Peterborough could net £30m due to a 30% sell-on clause if Ivan Toney moves for the £100m touted. Wow!

It just shows the value of inserting a sell-on clause when you sell a player with potential.

 

They also have a highly rated young lad in defence who plays for England at youth level. They're expecting to bag around 10 million for him, with Barnet expected to take a 50% cut of that, if & when he is sold.

5 million to a club like Barnet is transformational. As is 30 million to a club like Peterborough.

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

And 9 teams below us in the league.😂

So, we're agreed; a mediocre position for a mediocre team.