Brexit again...

[Fosse69]

For Brexit idiots look no further than who called the referendum, and who tried to deal with it, lump in the US president who calls the EU a foe. They are the people to take the flak. What Putin makes of all this who knows?

[Thevalefan]

I know how you feel,I'm still waiting for a response from the hypocritical lefties why they didn't protest in the same numbers in March when the Saudi Prince was here.

Anyone?

 

I'm still waiting to understand the restrictions of the EU your so against. Or in fact, any substance in your reasoning behind why leaving it such a great idea!

 

If your clearly so bothered by the Saudis, why didn't you go and wave a placard with the other few hundred lefties who did instead of moaning about people who didn't?

[Thevalefan]

ooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I think it's nice this guys local McDonalds let him use the WiFi for free so he can contribute to well to this whole debate.

[Thevalefan]

BTW,you forgot to call me thick?😂

 

5 minutes reading this thread and no one needs to call you that, you've virtually done it yourself. Well done 👍😂

[Paul6754]

Don’t know how to do the multi quote thing so I’ll respond as best as I can.

 

The evidence isn’t ‘left idiology’, it isn’t any political ideology,it’s natural science, it’s history, it’s the fossil record, it should be bloomin obvious.

 

Your suggestion that the USA shouldn't have borders or an immigration policy is right out of "Very Lefty Speak", It's nothing to do with natural science or any fossil record. People from all around the world have only been coming to the USA legally in record numbers since the mid 60's change to the Immigration Act mainly due to Chain Migration and the Diversity Visa programme.

 

And just because culture changes over time doesn’t mean I’ll be giving my life away. It just doesn’t change like that. That kind of quick change only happens during things like an invasion. Are we being invaded?

 

Culture doesn't change that fast unless there is an invasion, a high rate of migration like there has been to the UK and the USA recently coupled with a low birthrate of the indigenous population. Eg, the muslim population nearly doubles every 10 years in a country, there are currently 2.8 million muslims in the UK, by 2050 that's estimated to be around 40 million. Tt's about protecting a countrys' identity, culture, way of life, the future lives of their kidsetc, nothing more nothing less.

 

I’m not actually sure how you’re trying to suggest the Native American population wasn’t destroyed. There population shrank by about 95% over a couple of hundred years. You’re argument seems to be ‘look at America now’ as a reason it was a good thing. That’s a different argument entirely, so I’ll leave that there, but my point was that at the time it happened, it wouldn’t be viewed like that. You also seem to suggest that they weren’t destroyed because they fought for the land. The land they were defending from invaders you mean?

 

Because the word "Destroyed" suggests the first immigrants to the USA set out to kill all the American Indians, as I understand the situation American Indians killed each other in large numbers as they fought each other for land and also large numbers died fighting the settlers for land. All was not bad between American Indians and the settlers as The Thanksgiving holiday is a celebration of a Harvest feast between the Wompanog Indians and the settlers in Plymouth, MA

 

It’s true to say that our position (U.K./USA) was built on invasion, slavery, empire and death. Hats the history of the human race. We gained a lot of our culture from the Romans for example. But to draw an imaginary line in history and claim that this is why we stop. Everything else is bad now is just ridiculous.

 

The UK was influenced by the Roman invasion, not built on it, they came, they saw and most of them probably went back to Rome. If anything modern day Britain was built on the back of the Industrial Revolution. Yes some Roman DNA was left behind but its a stretch to say the UK was built on invasion by the the Romans. I also challenge your point that the USA was built by slaves. The slaves in America were mainly located in the South, the North was a far, far more wealthy area which suggests that the riches of the North weren't due to slavery. Also the North wanted to abolish slavery, if the slaves were doing all the work and all the wealth generation why would the Noth want to abolish it. That's not to say the slaves didn't play a sizeable part.

 

I just find the term ‘European based’ used against immigration to the USA, a totally different continent, a little amusing.

 

That's just the reality of the situation, up until the 1960's America was 90% white, where did those people come from?, Africa, China??? Please read the vision of the founding fathers in the Declaration of Independance, the thoughts of Abraham Lincoln and the concern about any changes to the Immigration Act in 1961.

 

I will add that the USA and Europe don’t carry the whole immigrant refugee burden. In proportion to population size, the Middle East takes the most, and with less resources.

And if 'european immigration' is a good thing, why by anti the EU? WOuldnt this help maintain european culture?

 

The USA/EU don't carry the whole refugee burden but a huge chunk of it. Saudia Arabia and the other rich gulf states do very little. I am a remainer and one reason why is that it's been shown in the USA over hundreds of years that the majority of Europeans from all different EU countries will over time assimilate and contribute.

[Paul6754]

What a purile answer! Because I reference a particular account of the Native American experience at the hands of invading / conquering people you insinuate it's the only account I've read or recommend. Of course there are many sources to reference as to these historical events but unless you have the blinkered views of a fact denier, like, say, 'historian' David Irving, no one could even try to pretend the Native Americans were not subject to an attempted ad-hoc genocide. The evidence is overwhelming.

What's wrong with you ultra right wingers? Why can't you accept reality? There is no problem with preferring capitalism to socialism or UK exiting the EU as opposed to staying but at least make those choices based on realities. Conjecture's one thing, fantasy is another.

 

Never voted conservative or Republican in my life but am realistic enough to realize that in the modern world countries have borders and an immigration policy, the latter isn't determined by events from nearly 400 years ago, I guess you think otherwise.

 

My post was meant to exaggerate for effect based on your assertion that modern day America shouldn't have borders or an immigration policy because the land was stolen from Native Americans, that contention is totally absurd and unreal. Do you make the same protestation to Australia, New Zealand, parts of North Africa etc etc.

[Thevalefan]

For Brexit idiots look no further than who called the referendum, and who tried to deal with it, lump in the US president who calls the EU a foe. They are the people to take the flak. What Putin makes of all this who knows?

 

But it would be fair to say the people who followed these very Brexit idiots also fall within the same assertion of being idiots for blindly following them like a herd of sheep.

 

I would fully back Brexit if a realistic and feasible plan was put forward. Of which here no one has done, or even made an attempt to articulate what they would believe is best. I've also not found anyone who can suggest anything better than "f'em walk away, no Deal, keep our money and stop letting people in". I never thought I'd say it, but I think Teresa May deserves a bit of credit on the white paper as she's going for damage limitation and keeping the door open for us to return to the EU if everything goes belly up. Shes had an incredibly hard job, with her own party backstabbing her at every opportunity. She clearly is taking into consideration all the warnings from all the expert analysis which have been done which is really the best thing she can do while still delivering EXACTLY what people who voted Leave voted for.

 

Until anyone can give a decent, logical opinion about how we will do better outside of the EU (which I am all ears to hear) then I'll continue to say the things I do. Not that anyone cares, but I never expected anyone to give two about what I have to say on a Vale forum

[For Us All]

I'm still waiting to understand the restrictions of the EU your so against. Or in fact, any substance in your reasoning behind why leaving it such a great idea!

 

If your clearly so bothered by the Saudis, why didn't you go and wave a placard with the other few hundred lefties who did instead of moaning about people who didn't?

 

If you don't yet understand you need to catch up,I suggest you start on page one.

 

I'm more bothered about the leftie hypocrites who prefer to vent their anger on the POTUS rather than someone who represents a regime that makes homosexuality,atheism and adultery a capital offense?

I don't think Trump's stooped quite that low yet but you lefties love to pick and choose your targets to get full attention.I suppose it's much easier to pick on a 72 year old male who's half British and says naughty things.

[Thevalefan]

Never voted conservative or Republican in my life but am realistic enough to realize that in the modern world countries have borders and an immigration policy, the latter isn't determined by events from nearly 400 years ago, I guess you think otherwise.

 

My post was meant to exaggerate for effect based on your assertion that modern day America shouldn't have borders or an immigration policy because the land was stolen from Native Americans, that contention is totally absurd and unreal. Do you make the same protestation to Australia, New Zealand, parts of North Africa etc etc.

 

I dont think SOTT said that, I think he was making the point that the US was built on immigration and for Trump to implement the policies he has is hypocritical of the way in which America has been built?

 

Could be wrong though.

[Thevalefan]

If you don't yet understand you need to catch up,I suggest you start on page one.

 

I'm more bothered about the leftie hypocrites who prefer to vent their anger on the POTUS rather than someone who represents a regime that makes homosexuality,atheism and adultery a capital offense?

I don't think Trump's stooped quite that low yet but you lefties love to pick and choose your targets to get full attention.I suppose it's much easier to pick on a 72 year old male who's half British and says naughty things.

 

You quote the post and fair enough, otherwise you just don't know and can't answer.

 

If Donald Trump bent over infront of you I doubt you'd be able control yourself would you!

 

I'll ask again, why didn't you protest the visit? Might explain why others didn't rather than posting ridiculous things as per

[For Us All]

5 minutes reading this thread and no one needs to call you that, you've virtually done it yourself. Well done 👍😂

 

Thank you Einstein.😁

[Thevalefan]

Thank you Einstein.😁

 

How old are you?

[Thevalefan]

It's all a bit Stoke on Trent to insult someone by saying they're really clever. I get so much stick for being a 'suit' or having a higher education by lads down the Vale or in the pub. Remember when I said I voted remain after the vote 😂

[For Us All]

How old are you?

 

How old do I look?😁

[Thevalefan]

How old do I look?😁

 

Your probably someone's dad which is worrying. Lets leave it there. 👍