Are the All Blacks the biggest cheats in rugby union?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I know some would argue it's part of why they are so successful but they were at best cynical v Ireland and at worst they cheated repeatedly. Shoulder charges, dangerous high tackles, deliberate penalties to prevent try scoring situations..it was continuous. One of the high tackles for me was a red card offence.

 

Still..Eddie jones will be wise to them so it will be interesting when we do finally come up against them. Plus the Lions will I reckon be a bit more 'streetwise' than last time

[TheSage]

You're being a bit harsh.

For me, they were a bit lucky in winning the game as the ball wasn't grounded for the first try and for the second one the final pass looked forward.

But playing on the edge and blocking runners and slowing the game down is something that the England sides of old did regularly.

It was a bit physical on Saturday, yes, and they perhaps were a bit too zealous at times but it's up to the referee to sort it out. But as I say I think you could question both tries and I'm not sure who was up in the box watching the slow motion replays but he needs to go to Specsavers.

My word the Irish have played well in their two games against the world's best.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

But playing on the edge and blocking runners and slowing the game down is something that the England sides of old did regularly..

 

All that does is suggest that England of old were the biggest cheats in Rugby Union at the time. I know it goes on and that the ref should stop it but that's like excusing a player diving for a penalty cos it's up to the ref to see it's a dive...the players and coaches have a responsibility too

 

Ireland did play really well and deserved more

[TheSage]

Point taken but playing in a tough, rough physical manner is what all the top teams do. If you don't compete hard you'll get run over.

Slowing the game down and deliberately playing on the edge of the rules (like accidentally going offside and putting up your hand to suggest you didn't mean to, or trying to appear as if you were trying hard to roll away from a ruck) has always been so and the referees should penalise these things.

He did sin bin two All Blacks and the Greens didn't take advantage.

 

Blocking runners is an interesting one and has really only appeared in the past few years. Footballers of course do that now as well (mainly off corners and often by standing in front of the keeper). But the game is so fast and there are so many players involved in a rugby move that it's nigh impossible to spot accurately unless you stop the game. And even with slow motion the myopic joker in the box couldn't see that their second try was a forward pass or that the first one hadn't been properly grounded.

 

Being as cynical as the Blacks, I suppose the answer is if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and this I think is what Gatland will do. We now have some monsters in the northern hemisphere and if he gets his selection right it could be a titanic battle.

 

There should, however, be no place for head high tackles and shoulder charges and their lad was fortunate to get away with that as it looked bad in real time.

 

Where's everyone else on this thread? Too high brow is it, JA, for Boslem folk?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

There should, however, be no place for head high tackles and shoulder charges and their lad was fortunate to get away with that as it looked bad in real time.

 

That's what I really had issue with...the other stuff is just being cynical and taking advantage of the rules..I get that. But high tackles and shoulder charges? These are guys that have trained and practiced their tackling technique for years and years so their instincts are to tackle properly and safely and within the rules..so anything else has to be deliberate. If it isn't they have no place on the field..either way refs should be ruthless.

 

Union is too complex for the common man to grasp don't you know..us Old Nortonoians get it

[Fosse69]

Boslem is not a rugby area.

[TheSage]

It's an interesting point.

I don't know of many schools at all that play rugby in the area.

St Joseph's and...err.... Leek High used to, otherwise you've got to travel to south cheshire, Wolverhampton and Burton to get a game.

 

You can still watch a lot of it on the TV though but I guess a lot of potters can't afford a TV licence either.

[Fosse69]

It's an interesting point.

I don't know of many schools at all that play rugby in the area.

St Joseph's and...err.... Leek High used to, otherwise you've got to travel to south cheshire, Wolverhampton and Burton to get a game.

 

You can still watch a lot of it on the TV though but I guess a lot of potters can't afford a TV licence either.

Do you see many rugby shirts/tops etc about?

[TheSage]

Just the odd one now and again, but you do see them. Usually England tops.

I go to Wasps sometimes so as a tight-fisted bugger I can use my yellow/black scarf at the Vale as well.

Isn't Sale the closest to Stoke?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I go to Exeter Chiefs occasionally..cracking atmosphere although team not doing so well this season

 

SoT doesn't seem interested in sports other than football and darts

 

Sale is probably the closest..guessing Northampton and Leicester are further away.Union is quite big at schools level in the Manchester area. Wish we'd played it at Ball Green..i'd have loved to have tried it as a kid..I'm a natural born prop!!!

[TheSage]

Yes, the top rugby clubs have clever commercial acumen and do try to create a great family atmosphere.

I saw a Wasps-Chiefs game a few months ago. It was good fun. The Chiefs fans all dressed up in their feather headdresses and Wasps were giving away free cowboy hats to home fans.

Wasps always make good use of the tannoy, invite school kids to meet the players and then pick one to bring out the match ball and place it on the centre spot. The Vale are trying to get a bit of the flag waving pre-match but there aren't many involved and it's a bit of a damp squid but I guess Norman has stolen that idea from Coventry (where Wasps play).

The atmosphere is very family friendly, with lots of children and females in attendance. They do loads of special offers and cut price deals.

Quite often if I buy my ticket in advance I pay less to watch the best in the world than I would to get into Vale Park. I saw Toulon there last season.

We could learn a lot from them.

I suppose I've now got the build of a member of the front row fraternity too though when I did play it was as a centre.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I suppose I've now got the build of a member of the front row fraternity too though when I did play it was as a centre.

 

 

I started as a centre when I first took up the game when I was a student..I had a bit of pace then. As I slowed down and 'filled out' I moved to what is my natural position. My natural position now is providing the drinks!!!

[Yukon]

I go to Exeter Chiefs occasionally..cracking atmosphere although team not doing so well this season

 

SoT doesn't seem interested in sports other than football and darts

 

Sale is probably the closest..guessing Northampton and Leicester are further away.Union is quite big at schools level in the Manchester area. Wish we'd played it at Ball Green..i'd have loved to have tried it as a kid..I'm a natural born prop!!!

 

I have a season ticket at Sale, I've got to miss the Chiefs game on 02 December.

 

As for the All Blacks, they are so adaptable that all they did was take a long hard look at how Ireland beat them and rectified it. There were a couple of high tackles but I did't see them as particularly malicious. As Steve Hansen (who I'm not a fan of generally) said, it's a fast game and the Irish players are unpredictable (sic), so if they side step and a player has committed to a tackle, there are going to be errors. I thought the yellow card was a yellow but I certainly don't think he tried to hurt the player and for me it was never a red.

For me over two tests, the Irish have surpassed themselves. Okay they got shut out on Saturday but they forced the All Blacks to defend and not many can claim to do that.

 

For me, a liberal interpretation of the rules can be the difference. It's no coincidence that the Boks are missing some of the bully-boy mindset which stopped England beating them for ten years and them winning a World Cup. Every test for years, Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield beat the hell out of their opponents; Ezebeth and Du Toit have youth on their side but SA are week without that mindset and they won't be a force without it.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

As Steve Hansen (who I'm not a fan of generally) said, it's a fast game and the Irish players are unpredictable (sic), so if they side step and a player has committed to a tackle, there are going to be errors. .

 

Sorry but no..not for me. These are guys at the top of the game who have trained for years and years regarding how to tackle effectively and safely..it's almost instinctive. These weren't for me players making late tackles they were poorly executed tackles which put the tackled player at risk. So it doesn't matter if it was meant or not..they were poorly executed dangerous tackles with on too many occasions a leading shoulder or swinging high arm..if it was deliberate or they don't know how to tackle safely they need to be punished for it..and the punishment was for me not severe enough

 

We'll have to agree to disagree :)

 

You can bash someone up perfectly legally in union..it's part of the fun (as is to an extent being bashed up) but you have a responsibility too