Bonfire night

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The comparison to marches is more of a question...if you want fireworks banned re the public cos some can't handle them in a civilised manner why don't you want (for example) anti-austerity marches banned where some can't handle them in a civilized manner and cause harm to police, firemen and so on?

 

I don't understand why you bring food into it...your criteria was people not behaving in a civilized manner ...I say the vast majority do so it's a disproportionate response. I am not suggesting no controls, just not a total ban on sales to the public

 

Semantics are critical when all we have to go on are the words posted

 

Exactly the state etc decides and they have decided that fireworks should be available to the public subject to certain restrictions. What I don't want is the state having unchecked power to ban things they deem 'frivolous and dangerous'. Have you been to the Notting Hill Carnival? I have been maybe ten times..and much of it is NOT within the controlled/planned area..and all the better for it. My point is it could easily be deemed frivolous and dangerous entertainment with a risk to police and firemen and therefore banned..your criteria

 

My point about football was specific to Vale v Stoke in a cup match and not general..surely it falls into the category of "frivolous and dangerous" entertainment where police and fireman would be hurt and so by your criteria should be banned?

 

Al sorts of substances are dangerous if misused..you want them banned too re the general public?

 

You were the one who introduced whether something is intrinsically dangerous or not..not me. I repeat I am not advocating a free for all with no controls, just not a ban on sales to the public..for me that is a disproportionate response and opens up a can of worms that we would struggle to get the lid back on

 

I don't think can add any more..but you never know ;)

[davidatpreston]

The comparison to marches is more of a question...if you want fireworks banned re the public cos some can't handle them in a civilised manner why don't you want (for example) anti-austerity marches banned where some can't handle them in a civilized manner and cause harm to police, firemen and so on? Full marks for persistence, but I already said I will not bring marches, EDL, gay pride, or anti-austerity or even sea cadets - into it. Try Mr H for a good long talk(!) on that perhaps?

 

I don't understand why you bring food into it...your criteria was people not behaving in a civilized manner ..You are straying into territory of misquoting here gradually but noticeably - my criteria, agenda, or whatever you wish to call it was not and is not 'people behaving in a civilised manner' but has always been safety of pets, children, even adults and not letting dangerous substances be used in an irresponsible way.I say the vast majority do so it's a disproportionate response. I am not suggesting no controls, just not a total ban on sales to the public And we disagree..all that has happened here is that you have repeated yourself, forcing me to do the same.

 

Semantics are critical when all we have to go on are the words posted

 

Exactly the state etc decides and they have decided that fireworks should be available to the public subject to certain restrictions. What I don't want is the state having unchecked power to ban things they deem 'frivolous and dangerous'. Have you been to the Notting Hill Carnival?Yes and relating it to thousands of bonfires at different places all over the UK seems a bad comparison I have been maybe ten times..and much of it is NOT within the controlled/planned area.But all within say, 5 miles of Notting Hill and not all over the country - look at the post links I gavce to REP, 2000 incidents in Halifax alone, hundreds in Tyne and Wear and dozend of other places - and this was a quiet bonfire noight compared to previous years.and all the better for it.

 

My point is it could easily be deemed frivolous and dangerous entertainment with a risk to police and firemen and therefore banned.And my point is that it already has strict controls, resources allocated to it, and responses planned because of known risks which is why it is different in every way.your criteria

 

My point about football was specific to Vale v Stoke in a cup match and not general..surely it falls into the category of "frivolous and dangerous" Football may be frivolous to some, but it is not intrinsically dangerous, even derby games where the whole thing is contained in one location, and again resources allocated, and the number of incidents at football games per person attending is tiny compared to the many tens of thousands of call outs of the fire brigade and other incidents onn bonfire night. It isn't the same, and never will be.entertainment where police and fireman would be hurt and so by your criteria should be banned?

 

Al sorts of substances are dangerous if misused..you want them banned too re the general public?Yes please, many of them like Roiundup weedkiller which has massive evidence of carciogenic activity, many other substances are only available to specialised people, and I don't think it is wrong to add explosives to that list. Some IRA bombs relied partially on using fireworks before they became more sophisticated

 

You were the one who introduced whether something is intrinsically dangerous or not..not me. I repeat I am not advocating a free for all with no controls, just not a ban on sales to the public..for me that is a disproportionate response and opens up a can of worms that we would struggle to get the lid back on People got used to not smoking in pubs very quickly, they accept not drinking on away football trips, we don't expect machine guns to be on sale freely, you might be pleasantly surprised, or at least surprised how many people would quickly see the common sense in my proposals.

 

I don't think can add any more..but you never know ;)Oh I feel sure you will manage it somehow, which is great. But if you really are as open-minded as you say perhaps you would be kind enough to at least have a quick read of the link below, which makes many points that |I have not had time or space for, such as the damage fireworks do to the environement, the fact that fireworks do not meet existing safety standards in a lot of cases and the danger of fireworks affecting vulnerable people like epileptics who have had siezures accur because of them.[/b

 

http://www.voiceforthevoiceless.org.za/dangers.htm

 

This was produced some time ago for South Africa, but just about ALL of the points are relevant and correct, and if and when anyone can provide answers to all these without digressing off into austerity marches and football matches, then they might persuade me to think differently, but I'm not expecting too many apposite replies in a hurry.

 

Finally, is it really worth this ?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=firework+injuries&biw=1280&bih=644&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIma-Nm8qGyQIVBjcUCh1_Pw-a

 

and would you like to go and put your arguments to the relatives of those pictured, the parents of those children ?

[davidatpreston]

 

Anyway I'm glad you had a great time JA!

 

Of course he did the event he attended was organised, safe and well pre-planned just like I am proposing.

 

Nice to see the way you and he both played off each others posts (him with the chip on shoulder thing) to make it your so-loved 2 people (or more if you can get them) v 1 ethic on this thread though, just like old times as neither of you could manage a set of civilised posts for even one single thread.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Jesus wept it's like the gift that just keeps on giving! 😂

 

David you need need to look up the meaning of a few words - erythrocytes very much being one of them!

[davidatpreston]

Jesus wept it's like the gift that just keeps on giving! 

 

David you need need to look up the meaning of a few words - erythrocytes very much being one of them!

 

Are you feeling a bit strange again - oxygen delivering blood cells ?

 

But of course, no comment on those extensive statistics I provided re football arrests and firework injuries, as I said - back to form for you. But I'm not wasting time trying to find an even weirder insult reply, plenty of others will do that on other threads no doubt.

 

Perhaps a little lie down in a darkened room might help you in the meantime.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Are you feeling a bit strange again - oxygen delivering blood cells ?

 

But of course, no comment on those extensive statistics I provided re football arrests and firework injuries, as I said - back to form for you. But I'm not wasting time trying to find an even weirder insult reply, plenty of others will do that on other threads no doubt.

 

Perhaps a little lie down in a darkened room might help you in the meantime.

 

Feel free to admit any time you like there is more disorder at football matches than at private bonfires...

[davidatpreston]

Feel free to admit any time you like there is more disorder at football matches than at private bonfires...

 

Feel free to admit - as plenty of people on here have found you out to be. Crawl off with your Maidenhead fans.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Feel free to admit that - as plenty of people on here have found you out to be. Crawl off with your Maidenhead fans.

 

As LVG said sticks and stones!

 

Sign you have lost the argument dear boy!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

[email protected] as specified by you in post 11 on this thread:

 

"If people can't be civilised about this then for the good and safety of fire crews and the public it is time to ban all but organised controlled bonfires . displays from October 1st to November 30th"

 

No misquoting at all, there for all to see

 

The point re Notting Hill is not how may...that's irrelevant The point is you think that what are deemed "frivolous and dangerous entertainment" should be banned so why not Noting Hill?It's frivolous, it's entertainment and firecrews etc are put at risk

 

Re football.....the point is if the authorities see it as 'frivolous and dangerous entertainment" you'd be Ok with them banning it..meets your criteria..it's only a football match after all

 

Stuff that should be banned for the general public cos it's dangerous if misused>bleach,alcohol,petrol, mothballs, hairspray, calor gas, hedge trimmers etc etc . In the hands of the wrong people these are killers after all, some of them explosive .

 

The reference to machine guns is proposterous..as I have said repeatedly I am not advocating NO CONTROLS on fireworks.

 

I read the link and it gave me nothing I did not already know..why assume someone who disagrees is ignorant of the facts?

 

So we should ban all occurrances of flashing lights cos they may cause problems for epileptics? Why not ban all sudden loud noises that may cause problems for those with heart problems? Your proposed organised displays could be death traps for them

 

By your criteria if just one person has been harmed at an organized display then they should be banned..why re you who is so concerned about all this advocating events where people have been hurt in the past? www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/teenagers-hurt-after-firework-flies-10395990

 

It might be less like but that wasn't your criteria

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Of course he did the event he attended was organised, safe and well pre-planned just like I am proposing.

 

Nice to see the way you and he both played off each others posts (him with the chip on shoulder thing) to make it your so-loved 2 people (or more if you can get them) v 1 ethic on this thread though, just like old times as neither of you could manage a set of civilised posts for even one single thread.

 

1 ethic? In your opinion

 

I also had a good time with my neighbours when we let fireworks off in 0ne of our gardens over the weekend...it was organised, safe and well pre-planned.

 

When have I been anything less than civilised on this thread?

 

Was interesting whilst it lasted

 

Shalom

[davidatpreston]

As LVG said sticks and stones!

 

Sign you have lost the argument dear boy!

 

Clearly not my little - as the stats are there and I have already had one pm agreeing with me and saying why bother with such an idiot (you).

 

Your refusal to even acknowledge those links shows that you only came on here to provoke and annoy - well, you've had some success at that, but not on the sensible discussion which you ruined - but I'm not wasting any more time on you here.

 

And you wonder why people on another thread gave your whiney creepy post big minus scores.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Clearly not - as the stats are there and I have already had one pm agreeing with me and saying why bother with such an idiot (you). Your refusal to even acknowledge those links shows that you only came on here to provoke and annoy - well, you've had some success - but I'm not wasting any more time on you here. And you wonder why people on another thread gave your whiney creepy post big minus scores.

 

It doesn't count if you send private messages to yourself agreeing with your own views from your other user accounts!

 

I enjoyed reading your links but they are a tiny sample of events that took place on the day when tens if not hundreds of thousands enjoyed private events and you want to ban them because of a few scumbags. Typical lefty ideology, don't deal with the issue and troublemakers as we can't be seen to be singling people out even though they are law breakers lets just make sure everyone suffers equally for the moronic actions of a few! No sense in it whatsoever and thank heavens it won't happen because daft ideas like this are normally viewed as so dim they never become law thankfully.

 

I don't wonder why at all, I know they are in general sad loners too gutless to engage in conversation (other than yourself of course who loves doing it and throwing names at me!)

[cheshirevaliant]

Nobody ever PMs me saying they agree with me :(

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Nobody ever PMs me saying they agree with me :(

 

One on its way! 😂

[davidatpreston]

Nobody ever PMs me saying they agree with me :(

 

Ask REP-tile nicely and he might, he's good at being a fawning little brown-nose.

 

 

ha - just seen that he beat me to it while I was posting. Predictable as well !