Looking forward to the next game to come around so we have another team selection to complain about. Only 3 days, eh. 

5 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Tolaj was borderline playing at right wing back at times before the red card. It was completely nuts.

Right wing-back?  Must’ve dropped back from his touchline hugging right wing position.👍🏻

4 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

Right wing-back?  Must’ve dropped back from his touchline hugging right wing position.👍🏻

In my opinion:
Wing-backs are touchline hugging?

There was a spell where, because we couldn't get out as we had no midfield, he was sitting off the ball on the right wing and was tracking his runner as deep as Mitch Clark.

If you play him as a wider player in a front three he may be a '9' when we have the ball, but when we don't he's going to have to track wide runs from the opposition fullback, otherwise Clark is left 2v1. It's why it nullifies him as he's 60 yards from goal whenever we win the ball back, and we were immediately going long as our midfield couldn't get on the ball.

It was the same for Waine, he was probably the stand out first half - looked quite lively but it was mostly on the halfway line, with his back to goal, as he'd been tracking the fullback. 

Second half he was much higher up the pitch all the time as he was pressing immobile CBs, not ball-carrying widemen. When he received the ball he was 30 yards from goal and could turn and cause havoc with only the defenders in front of him in a right panic.

In my opinion, anyway. I played a lot of FIFA as a teenager.

Edited August 4, 2025Aug 4 by JoeB2

4 hours ago, JohnDoe said:

Didn’t need hindsight. I said it before we kicked a ball, which was apparently against the rules here, but was proven correct based on seeing it play out the same way for half of last season. There is no logical argument you can give (im all ears though if you want to try) that can explain why that was our best possible 11 (with players out of position) in that formation, to win the game against a team playing 3 in the middle. If we want to play 3-4-3, then there is a very specific midfielder you need in the middle. They have to cover a lot of ground, offer protection to the defence, are able to progress the ball, are press resistant etc. Playing Shipley in that role was madness, and id also argue that Byers isnt right for that role either. And anyone who watched Tolaj last season knows with conclusive evidence where he should be playing. 

Interesting though that we shouldnt be questioning DM’s selection and formation…well apart from player you thought should be playing. 

Good stuff, really happy you were right.👍🏻

On your other points, we’ve signed some new players, possibly with 3-4-3 in mind, who knows, so why wouldn’t Moore back himself first game of the season?  You know about as much about Shipley as me, bugger all, so how you can say it was madness to play him in the role is beyond me.

Point out to me where I’ve said we shouldn’t question DM’s selection.

Start using a bit of common sense and post some facts instead of making yourself look stupid making stuff up.

On 04/08/2025 at 13:15, JoeB2 said:

There was a spell where, because we couldn't get out as we had no midfield, he was sitting off the ball on the right wing and was tracking his runner as deep as Mitch Clark.

If you play him as a wider player in a front three he may be a '9' when we have the ball, but when we don't he's going to have to track wide runs from the opposition fullback, otherwise Clark is left 2v1. It's why it nullifies him as he's 60 yards from goal whenever we win the ball back.

In my opinion, anyway. I played a lot of FIFA as a teenager.

The forwards will be expected to track back, that’s football.  We’ve got 5 defenders so Clarke, or whoever, should be able to offer some cover at least.  Tolaj doesn’t spend the whole game chasing back, that’s fact.

Watch the game back and see how much time Tolaj spent forward wide on our right in that second half.

Edited August 6, 2025Aug 6 by Guitar Ray
Typo

4 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

The forwards will be expected to track back, that’s football.  We’ve got 5 defenders so Clarke of whoever should be able to offer some cover at least.  Tolaj doesn’t spend the whole game chasing back, that’s fact.

Watch the game back and see how much time Tolaj spent forward wide on our right in that second half.

In my opinion:
Tolaj should never be deep tracking a runner. He should press centre-halves and not go any deeper, as he did second half. It's a complete waste if he's picking the ball up in our half.

He's an absolute menace of an 'off the shoulder' striker who absolutely petrifies centre halves with pace and strength. They were cacking themselves whenever he picked the ball up in the second half. Rotherham would have been delighted to have him in front of them, receiving on the halfway line, with two banks of players in front of him for the first 45.

Examples of where Tolaj is completely wasted. Our best striker should not be in these positions 15 minutes into a game: He's playing like a midfielder. Both pre red-card. If he does get the ball in either situation he has no hope of doing anything constructive as he's 70 yards from their box.

On the left in both:

 

 

Edited August 4, 2025Aug 4 by JoeB2

On 20/07/2025 at 21:54, Santa said:

FYI the only way of getting there on the train is via Derby.

Stockport is completely shut for three weeks, even for through traffic, due to them taking down a bridge over the station during August.

Stockports been shut for years!😄

32 minutes ago, geoff1 said:

Stockports been shut for years!😄

The only good thing about Stockport is the Armoury public house.... cracking pint of Robinsons ale,last time I went I didn't come out of there until half time lol 🤣🤣🍻🍻🍻

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

Tolaj should never be deep tracking a runner. He should press centre-halves and not go any deeper, as he did second half. It's a complete waste if he's picking the ball up in our half.

He's an absolute menace of an 'off the shoulder' striker who absolutely petrifies centre halves with pace and strength. They were cacking themselves whenever he picked the ball up in the second half. Rotherham would have been delighted to have him in front of them, receiving on the halfway line, with two banks of players in front of him for the first 45.

Examples of where Tolaj is completely wasted. Our best striker should not be in these positions 15 minutes into a game: He's playing like a midfielder. Both pre red-card. If he does get the ball in either situation he has no hope of doing anything constructive as he's 70 yards from their box.

On the left in both:

 

 

That's the modern game now everyone is told to track runner's from the opposite team so then it leaves us short on other parts of the pitch,years ago forwards would only come back to defend corners, how time's have changed 🤔

Edited August 4, 2025Aug 4 by Splodger

2 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Tolaj should never be deep tracking a runner. He should press centre-halves and not go any deeper, as he did second half. It's a complete waste if he's picking the ball up in our half.

He's an absolute menace of an 'off the shoulder' striker who absolutely petrifies centre halves with pace and strength. They were cacking themselves whenever he picked the ball up in the second half. Rotherham would have been delighted to have him in front of them, receiving on the halfway line, with two banks of players in front of him for the first 45.

Examples of where Tolaj is completely wasted. Our best striker should not be in these positions 15 minutes into a game: He's playing like a midfielder. Both pre red-card. If he does get the ball in either situation he has no hope of doing anything constructive as he's 70 yards from their box.

On the left in both:

 

 

LT’s (left) and Ronan’s (right) heat maps from Saturday. Quite similar positioning wise. I assume Lorent is generally “hotter” because he played 90+ mins (not the reasons my wife gives😉)so had more touches, as has been said perhaps too many in his own half. I’ll let  Mitch’s heat map (below the two) in comparison to Tolaj’s feed  the right winger/wing back debate.

 

1 hour ago, Trumpingtonvale said:

LT’s (left) and Ronan’s (right) heat maps from Saturday. Quite similar positioning wise. I assume Lorent is generally “hotter” because he played 90+ mins (not the reasons my wife gives😉)so had more touches, as has been said perhaps too many in his own half. I’ll let  Mitch’s heat map (below the two) in comparison to Tolaj’s feed  the right winger/wing back debate.

 

In my opinion:
Most of Tolaj's touches came as basically on the right wing with a chunk behind the halfway line. 

I know none of us are professional football managers but sometimes things are quite blindingly obviously wrong!

Edited August 4, 2025Aug 4 by JoeB2

I'm expecting a few of you to throw your hats into the ring next time the managers job comes up and then PL football within 2 years, all whilst you work from home. A lot of stating of absolute fact rather than opinions

22 minutes ago, philmpv said:

I'm expecting a few of you to throw your hats into the ring next time the managers job comes up and then PL football within 2 years, all whilst you work from home. A lot of stating of absolute fact rather than opinions
 

Edit: in my opinion

I’m really not sure what you expect on a football forum mate. Debate and, yes, criticism of football is too far?

I’ll preface every post with ‘in my opinion’ if it helps you to sleep at night. 

Edited August 4, 2025Aug 4 by JoeB2

Been thinking it for a while but the poor quality of debate on this thread has really cemented that OVF is on a bit of a decline. 

Saturday was an interesting game, meriting of discussion and full of talking points. 

You try and post something a bit provocative/reasoned to stimulate debate, and the Osh Cartel label you a bedwetter and the OVF Police demand to see your qualifications without ever engaging with the points you make. It just becomes a bit of an echo chamber of posts basically saying ‘Up the Vale’. 

It’s mad that as someone who has been relentlessly banging the positivity drum all summer I now find myself not wanting to bother.

30 minutes ago, philmpv said:

I'm expecting a few of you to throw your hats into the ring next time the managers job comes up and then PL football within 2 years, all whilst you work from home. A lot of stating of absolute fact rather than opinions
 

That's a fact in itself lol